Brit-Am Anthropology and DNA Update
Contents:
1. Question concerning Y DNA and the Jews
2. The book "When Scotland was Jewish."
3. Cynthia N. Baker, "Gender and Jewish origins,"
4. Irish Genetics: Abstracts and Summaries
5. DNA research reveals Middle Eastern origins of Irish people
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1. Question concerning Y DNA and the Jews
From: david harrigan
Greetings
I have a question concerning Y DNA and the Jews
1.Both Arabs and Jews have the same Y DNA being Halo group J
2. All others Jews, are of the Jewish Faith, and are not of the same Y DNA of J
3. Y DNA of the 12 tribes of Israel has to be Different from Halo group J, coming from Abraham Isaac and Jacob
Ishmael is the father of the Arabs, and would have the Halo group J
Todays Jews claim they are of Jacob, and have the same Halo group of J
Could you please explain this Logic
Best Regards
David
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Brit-Am Reply:
This is not a simple matter.
First of all when they write that DNA is similar they do not mean its alike but rather has a similar array of types present.
About 50% of Arab (e.g. Palestine and Iraq, Saudia ca. 58%) DNA is J mainly J1., 20% E1b, 8% R1b, 1.5. % R1a. The Arabs also have some sub-Saharan input.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Genetic_studies_on_Arabs
About 30% of Jewish DNA is J mainly J2.
Ashkenazi (approximate):E1b1b1 (M35) 20% G (M201) 7% J1 or J* (12f2b) 20% J2 (M172) 24% Q1 (P36) 5% R1a1a (M17) 12 % R1b1 (P25) 12%
Sephardi (approximate): Usually about the same as Ashkenazi except that E1b1b1 has a higher percentage and there is more R1b1. Larger variety among different communities which makes calculating an average less valid.
In a study of Israeli Jews from four different groups (Ashkenazi Jews, Kurdish Jews, North African Sephardi Jews, and Iraqi Jews) and Palestinian Muslim Arabs, more than 70% of the Jewish men and 82% of the Arab men whose DNA was studied, had inherited their Y chromosomes from the same paternal ancestors, who lived in the region within the last few thousand years. "Our recent study of high-resolution microsatellite haplotypes demonstrated that a substantial portion of Y chromosomes of Jews (70%) and of Palestinian Muslim Arabs (82%) belonged to the same chromosome pool."[32] All Jewish groups were found to be genetically closer to each other than to Palestinians and Muslim Kurds. Kurdish, North African Sephardi, and Iraqi Jews were found to be genetically indistinguishable while slightly but significantly differing from Ashkenazi Jews. In relation to the region of the Fertile Crescent, the same study noted; "In comparison with data available from other relevant populations in the region, Jews were found to be more closely related to groups in the north of the Fertile Crescent (Kurds, Turks, and Armenians) than to their Arab neighbors", which the authors suggested was due to migration and admixture from the Arabian Peninsula into certain current Arabic-speaking populations during the period of Islamic expansion.[14]
Approximately 35% to 43% of Jewish men are in the paternal line known as haplogroup J[a] and its sub-haplogroups. This haplogroup is particularly present in the Middle East and Southern Europe.[33] 15% to 30% are in haplogroup E1b1b,[b] (or E-M35) and its sub-haplogroups which is common in the Middle East, North Africa, and Southern Europe.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Genetic_studies_on_Jews
Martin Lightfoot of the BIWF in a verbal communication suggested to us that the Jews have similar DNA patterns to some Middle Eastern populations since they were mostly in the Middle East until about 200 CE or later.
DNA seems to be determined artly by environment and partly be heredity.
The solution is therefore along those lines.
We all need to study these matters more intently.
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2. The book "When Scotland was Jewish."
When-Scotland-Was-Jewish-Elizabeth-Caldwell-Hirschma
I saw on the internet - but didnt buy it \
https://www.bookdepository.com/When-Scotland-Was-Jewish-Elizabeth-Caldwell-Hirschman/9780786477098?redirected=true&utm_medium=Google&utm_campaign=Base2&utm_source=IL&utm_content=When-Scotland-Was-Jewish&selectCurrency=ILS&w=AFF9AU9SB1NP2XA8VRSG&pdg=aud-909777905995:cmp-8896614386:adg-91345587082:crv-411479337354:pos-none:dev-c&gclid=CjwKCAiAp4KCBhB6EiwAxRxbpGl8FznZCLUwog9TXw7_mIq_QrcIpoTuyfpRcPQeJ6VJjf4ijveeChoCcvAQAvD_BwE
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Brit-Am Reply:
We have a copy of the book 'When Scotland was Jewish" by Elizabeth Caldwell Hirschman
https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/1206919.When_Scotland_Was_Jewish
The blurb says:
The popular image of Scotland is dominated by widely recognized elements of Celtic culture. But could it be that a significant non-Celtic influence on Scotland's history has been largely ignored or unknown for centuries? This book argues just such a case, maintaining that much of Scotland's history and culture from 1100 forward is Jewish. The authors provide evidence that much of the population, including several national heroes, villains, rulers, nobles, traders, merchants, bishops, guild members, burgesses, and ministers, was of Jewish decent. They describe how the ancestors of these persons originated in France and Spain and then made their way to Scotland's shores, moors, burgs and castles from the reign of Malcolm Canmore to the aftermath of the Spanish Inquisition. It is proposed here that much of the traditional historical account of Scotland rests on fundamental interpretive errors, and that these errors have been perpetuated in order to manufacture and maintain an origin for Scotland that affirms its identity as a Celtic, Christian society. imagination has buried a more accurate and profound understanding of its history. The authors' wide-ranging research includes examination of census records, archaeological artifacts, castle carvings, cemetery inscriptions, religious seals, coinage, burgess and guild member rolls, noble genealogies, family crests, portraiture, and geographic place names.
The book itself to us was disappointing. It did niot seem to give much proof of anything.
The DNA evidence seemed to relate to Spanish communities rather than Jewish ones.
There was correspondence about this some time back on a DNA e-mail list.
They ended up suggesting that the Jews in Spain were largely, or partly, composed of Spanish converts to Judaism.
The suggestions was that when the Spaniards waged war against the Jews in the 1300s and 1400s it was descendants of these Spanish converts to Judaism who moved to Scotland!
The book itself however did not expressly say that.
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3. Cynthia N. Baker, "Gender and Jewish origins,"
https://www.brown.edu/conference/revisiting-the-question-of-jewish-origins/abstracts
Extract:
Further, what are we to make of genomic studies of Ashkenazi Jews (the majority of Jews) that indicate a considerably higher percentage of European ancestry discernible in maternal lines than in father-to-son lines of descent? (Studies have demonstrated 'at least 80%' European origin of AJ mitochondrial DNA, indicating mother-to-child transmission of genetic material, versus approximately 50% European origin of Y chromosomal haplogroups associated with only father-to-son transmission of genetic material.) Finally, what implications for our study of Jewish origins arise from the finding that such a sizable proportion of the ancestry of today's Jews is 'indigenous to Europe'?
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4. Irish Genetics: Abstracts and Summaries
by Kevin Alan Brook
http://www.khazaria.com/genetics/irish.html#:~:text=In%20terms%20of%20maternal%20mitochondrial,%2C%20and%2010%25%20carry%20J.
Extract:
The "Celtic" Irish people of the emerald isle of Ireland are closely related to the Scottish people of nearby Scotland, and Irish and the partly Frisian-Anglo-Saxon English people from England are also significantly related. This shows the limitations of assuming we know everything about somebody's ancestry merely based on what language their ethnic group traditionally spoke (in this case, Irish Gaelic versus English). Also, some Irish people moved to Iceland and are thus partly related to modern Icelanders.
R1b, which originated in western Europe, is the most common Y-DNA haplogroup among Irish men, at a frequency of about 81.5%. I1 is the second most common with 6%, followed by I2b at 5%, R1a at 2.5%, and E1b1b at 2%. G2a is found in only about 1%. Also rare are I2a (1%) and J2 (1%).
In terms of maternal mitochondrial DNA (mtDNA), about 38.5% of Irish people carry mtDNA haplogroup H (of whom 11% are in H1 and H3), 13% carry U (of whom 2% are in U2, 0.5% are in U3, 2.5% are in U4, and 6% are in U5), 12% carry T, 11% carry K, and 10% carry J. Several others are encountered at smaller frequencies: 4% in HV0 and V, 3% in I, 2.5% in W, 1.5% in X2, and 4.5% in other(s).
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5. DNA research reveals Middle Eastern origins of Irish people
https://stepfeed.com/dna-research-reveals-middle-eastern-origins-of-irish-people-6107
The Irish people have a lot more in common with Middle Eastern people than previously believed.
Through sequencing the first genomes from ancient Irish humans, geneticists from Trinity College Dublin and archaeologists from Queens University Belfast have discovered that Irish ancestors were composed of two migrant groups, one of which was a group of Middle Easterners.
By studying the 5,000-year-old bones of a female farmer found in a tomb near Belfast, they found that the Stone Age farmers who settled in Ireland originally came from the Fertile Crescent, the region which stretches from the Gulf through today's southern Iraq, Syria, Lebanon, Jordan, Palestine and northern Egypt.