Brit-Am Research Sources (6 October, 2014, 12 Tishrei, 5775)
Contents:
1. Damon Casale: Question on David Rohl
2. Damon Casale: The Milesians Came to Ireland from the Middle East
3. Clifford Riley: The Milesians, Dolmens and Druids
4. Stephen Phillips: Picts were not in Ireland! Germans from Assyrians and Others
5. Ancient Ships and Fish-Boats? How the Israelites were carried overseas.
6. Egyptian-Type Faience Produced in Britain
Understanding Bronze Age Faience in Britain and Ireland
7. Phoenicians in West Europe: From Canaan to Cornwall & Cork by Harry Bourne (Extracts)
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1. Damon Casale: Question on David Rohl
re Chronological Revision
Yair,
Are you familiar with David Rohl? 'Pharaohs and Kings: A Biblical Quest' and 'The Lords of Avaris' in particular, since they tie into your research on the migrations of Israel.
Damon
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Brit-Am Reply:
I have read two of his works in part. I was not impressed but that might be just me.
I may well revise my opinion later.
Peter James "Centuries of Darkness" in my opinion is much more helpful
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2. Damon Casale: The Milesians Came to Ireland from the Middle East
Yair,
I'm doing research on how the Milesians came to Ireland and where they came from before that. I've come to the conclusion that the Irish Annals of the Four Masters are a confused mess, and that their chronology is way off. By their count, the Milesians would've come to Ireland around 1700 BCE, but other references have the Milesians being Scythian in origin, and the Scythians are about a thousand years later.
I found some research you did on this subject here:
http://www.britam.org/traditions6.html
Apparently the Milesians came to Egypt in the time of Psammetichus I (664-610 BCE) as mercenaries, and founded a city called Naucratis:
https://www.academia.edu/330427/Strabo_17.1.18_801C_Inaros_the_Milesians_and_Naucratis
[Editor's Note:
Damon Casale apparently identifies the Milesians of Ireland with former inhabitants of Miletus in southwest Turkey. This does not necessarily negate an israelite origin since the Cimmerians were also once in that region. The Cimmerians included Israelties amongst them.
See:
Miletus
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Miletus ]
Some of these same Greeks were also settled at Tahpanhes (Tanis) [in Egypt]:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Psamtik_I
From what you researched, Mil (Fennius Farsa)'s son Niul married a 'daughter of pharaoh' while in Egypt. If the Milesians came to Egypt in the latter part of Psammetichus' reign, as seems likely based on the mention in the article from academica.edu that Psammetichus was a contemporary of Cyaxares the Mede (625-585 BCE), then the son would have been marrying Scota, a 'daughter of pharaoh,' somewhere around 600-580 BCE.
Apparently Mil first traveled to 'Spain' after that, to a town called Brigantia (later called Corunna):
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Milesians_(Irish)
From there, his brother's son Lughaidh traveled to Ireland to avenge their father Ith's death (when he first tried to attack Ireland), taking Scota with them. Scota apparently died in the ensuing battle:
http://www.irishstoryteller.com/milesian.html
In the Annals of the Four Masters, Tea (Tephi?) is referred to as the daughter of Lughaidh, whom Eremon (Heremon) married in Spain.
http://www.ucc.ie/celt/online/T100005A/
(Look up p. 17 and scroll down to M3502.2.)
I'm not sure how reliable the Annals are, but this does seem to tie the coming of the Milesians to Ireland somewhere around or after 580 BCE.
Essentially, I'm trying to research the tradition of Jeremiah taking the daughters of King Zedekiah to Ireland. This is about as close as I've come to connecting Tea and Scota to that general time period, using the most reliable source material I can find. The Annals of the Four Masters do mention an Ollam Fodhla and a Simeon Breach, but not in the context of Heremon or the coming of the Milesians. They apparently come later, meaning that either the tradition is off in its details, or the Annals are confused (likely to be the case anyway).
Damon
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3. Clifford Riley: The Milesians, Dolmens and Druids
Re
BHR-115. Brit-Am Historical Reports
http://hebrewnations.com/features/bhr/bhr115.html
#2. Who Were the Druids? by Owen Jarus
Dear Yair,
Firstly, regarding you wanting to co-relate types of dolmen with Irish clans. The Dolmens of Ireland are credited to the original inhabitants of Ireland who now form the native tribes of Munster. As a result they predate those tribes, Clans and Septs which followed. However, as the incoming tribes took of those lands over any Dolmens, standing stones, etc., were used for religious rituals, festivals, etc.
My own Sept used an alignment of five pillar stones (known as Fionn Mac Cumhaill's) located on Shantemon Hill as the inauguration place of the ORaghallaigh for celebrating the `The Pattern of Shantemon', which was a Lughnasadh assembly held as a part of the celebrations of `The Feast of Lughnasadh' which continued to be celebrated at Shantemon Hill until the beginning of the Second World War.
Secondly, I found Owen Jarus' comments concerning Druid very interesting. If he were to study who these tribes functioned he'll discover that within a Celtic tribe the tribal monarchs originated as Priest-Kings who were responsible for all religious and priestly functions within their tribe. Although the Greek chroniclers first began referring to the Celts during the 6th to 5th Centuries BC, these early references exclude Ireland as Greek contact was not established until around 300 BC. However, certain references within Irish mythology are believed to represent a transition from a matriclan to a patriclan system. These myths relate to a period dominated by female deities becoming subject to acts of physical humiliation and degradation, believed to reflect a change in male attitudes towards women caused by a change of emphasis within the Celtic faith away from the female deities towards the male.
This has caused some historians to believe that during this period in either Britain, Ireland or Gaul many of the religious functions once handled by Celtic priest-kings were delegated to the Vates, causing the priest-kings religious authority to be reduced in direct proportion to the rise in priestly functions of the Vates. This transition increased the demands placed upon the Vates causing the eventually formation of separate bodies to deal with the more corporeal matters of Celtic society, thus leading to birth of the Druid class (whose existence wasn't recorded until the 2nd Century BC). The transfer of religious power from Priest Kings to a newly created body ended the age of the Priest Kings, leaving the King of Tara as the last of the Priest Kings.
Thus doesn't rule out the belief that the Druids, Bards and Vates were part of an indigenous pre-Celtic culture within either Gaul, Britain or Ireland that was adopted by the incoming Celts. When the Celts established Galatia in 260 BC all references to the Galatians contain no specific references to Druids, but there are clear references to individuals who serve identical functions. Whilst nearly five centuries later Clement of Alexandria (160 to 215 AD) clearly showed that Druids did exist within Galatia, showing that Druids were not restricted to Gaul, Britain and Ireland, but were or had become an intrinsic part of all Celtic society wherever the Celts went.
An account of Golamh contained within `Leather Cabala' identifies the 13th Dynasty Pharaoh Nectanebo as the father-in-law of Golamh. Historically there were two Pharaohs named Nectanebo (given by some as Nectanebus), the first (also called Nakhtnebef) ruled from 380 until 363 BC and the second (also called Nakhthoreb) from 360 until to 343 BC. Likewise the historical evidence shows that by the 4th Century BC the Celts had settled in Scythia supporting Irish claims of a Celto-Scythian origin, while the Iberian Celts were not only settled in Spain, supporting the tradition of Golamh as an Iberian Celt, but the Iberian Celts had already served as mercenaries in Sparta and Sicily, a fact noted by P.B.Ellis in his work `Celt And Greek'. Therefore during the 4th Century BC there exists a clear consistency between Irish mythology, archaeology and historical fact in which the possibility of Celtic mercenaries serving within the Egyptian forces before the start of Ptolemaic rule of Egypt becomes highly plausible.
Since Golamh left Egypt for Spain after hearing of Spain being threatened, then if this occurred during the reign of Pharaoh Nectanebo it would directly correspond to historical events and the archaeological evidence which shows that during the 4th Century BC Gaulish speakers within Spain drove many Gaels out of Spain, causing the Gaels to flee to Britain whilst some Gaels continued migrating until reaching Ireland (with the majority of Gaels staying in Britain). Equally given that some accounts state that Golamh conducted a war for Pharaoh against the Libyans, then what may at first appear as a trivial reference becomes one of significance when one considers that within his work `Egyptian Myth & Legend' Donald A. MacKenzie wrote:
Neith, the earth goddess of the Libyans, 'the green lady' of Egypt, who resembles somewhat the fairy, and especially the banshee, of the Iberians and their Celtic conquerors,
This not only shows that the arrival of the Milesian Gaels occurred during the 4th Century BC, but their arrival could have been a factor in the cultural transition from a matriclan to a patriclan system and the transfer of power from the Priest Kings to a newly created body known as 'Druids'. Equally once the Milesian Gaels arrived in Ireland there was clear interaction between them and others leading to a transfer of beliefs, rituals, traditions, etc. An example of this is the Samhain festival/Halloween, although seen as a Celtic festival is believed was adopted and adapted it from the Formorians who are believed to have created the beliefs which overtime evolved into Druidry.
Yours Cliff
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4. Stephen Phillips: Picts were not in Ireland! Germans from Assyrians and Others
re
BAMAD-121. Brit-Am Anthropology and DNA Update
http://hebrewnations.com/features/bamad/bamad121.html
#3. DNA and the Orkney Islands (Scotland), a Collection of Interesting DNA and other Notes
.. in reference to the aforesaid article, I notice that you are STILL confusing the Picts and the Scots (Dal nRaidi or Cruithne). The Picts DID NOT settle in Ireland. The Picts are NOT Cruithne. This is a lie and a deception which arises because a certain Irish pseudo-historian by the name of Tigernach (pronounced Tiernach) made the erroneous connection and everyone has followed his error without question. The DNA samples you are considering and assigning to the Picts are clearly applicable to the Dal nRaidi who came from Ireland. There is confusion as to who the Dal nRaidi were with O'Rahilly saying that they were not related to the Cruithne, who were the oldest of the Irish races, but part of this is down to the corrupted Irish records.
As Watson has aptly said, 'the Irish Cruithnigh were no more Picts than they were Caledonians'. Early Irish History & Mythology, p.342 by Thomas F. O'Rahilly
As stated, the confusion arises because the Scots who settled in the land we now know as Scotland (as contradistinct to Ireland which was once known as Scotland) took the title of rex Pictorum:-
'Cinaed mac AilpÃn (858), the first 'Scot' who ruled in Pictland, is styled rex Pictorum by the annalists, and his three immediate successors get the same title.†Early Irish History & Mythology pp.372-3
But the Scots WERE NOT Picts! The Picts WERE NOT Scots!
Similarly, the Ashkenazi Jews who came FROM the land of Ashkenaz had no association with the Ashkenazim who had disappeared from the land during the time of Tiglathpileser III BEFORE the Jews were settled there. The Askenazim can actually be traced to the Xiongnu of northern China. The Germans are descendants of the Assyrians, Chaldeans and (until a couple of centuries ago) Jews and Israelites. You might find it interesting to note that Ptolemy mentions a city of Germanicia which he locates somewhere between Antioch and this land of Ashkenaz. (Ptolemy, Geography Book 5, Chap. 14,.10. (Chap. 15,-10 in some copies.) The land of Ashkenaz itself was called variously Ushkakkna, Ushkakan and Ushshukani in the Assyrian records. (This is that very same land that the prophet Yechezekel called "land of the Chaldeans" in Ezek. 1:3. By his time, the land was controlled by the Chaldeans, the original inhabitants having long disappeared.) This region is also where the Targum Yerushalmi places the land of Ashkenaz. (Jewish Encyclopedia Vol. 2, article on Ashkenaz, pp.191-2, Isidore Singer et al, New York 1900.)
Regards,
Steve
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5. Ancient Ships and Fish-Boats? How the Israelites were carried overseas.
Foreword by Yair Davidiy:
[Amos 4:2] THE LORD GOD HATH SWORN BY HIS HOLINESS, THAT, LO, THE DAYS SHALL COME UPON YOU, THAT HE WILL TAKE YOU AWAY WITH HOOKS, AND YOUR POSTERITY WITH FISHHOOKS
The Hebrew transalted here as "hooks" has 'Tzinot' meaning fleets of ships or 'great ships' not HOOKS
And 'Sirot-dugah' meaning 'fishing-boats' or "fish-boats" not FISHHOOKS!
This verse is referring to a portion of the exiles having been taken across the sea by ship to Spain and elsewhere.
We have explained elswhere that the ships in question were those of the Phoenicians and Philistines who shared aspects of Minoan and Greek culture.
The question is whether 'Sirot-dugah' refers to 'fishing-boats' or "fish-boats". By fish-boats we mean a type of ship shaped liked a ship (as existed in Cyprus) or associated with a fish for some other reason.
The sources below may show some light on this possibility.
The first source (a) gives us some idea of the capacity ancient ships may have had to transport large numbers of people.
The second source (b) mentions the existence of a larege type of ancient Greek ship that was characterized by a fish symbol on its prow.
(a) A N C I E N T A N D M O D E R N S H I P S.
PART I. WOODEN SAILING-SHIPS.
BY
SIR GEORGE C. V. HOLMES, K.C.V.O., C.B.,
1906
http://www.gutenberg.org/files/33098/33098-h/33098-h.htm#f12
For instance, Pliny mentions a vessel in which the Vatican obelisk and its pedestal, weighing together nearly 500 tons, were brought from Egypt to Italy about the year 50 a.d. It is further stated that this vessel carried an additional cargo of 800 tons of lentils to keep the obelisk from shifting on board.
Lucian, writing in the latter half of the second century a.d.,40 mentions, in one of his Dialogues, the dimensions of a ship which carried corn from Egypt to the Pireus. The figures are: length, 180 ft.; breadth, nearly 50 ft.; depth from deck to bottom of hold, 43 ft. The latter figure appears to be incredible. The other dimensions are approximately those of the Royal George, described on p. 126.
(b) The Greek Age of Bronze
Ships
http://www.salimbeti.com/micenei/ships.htm
Another early large Aegean Type I ship is represented in this Cycladic terracotta "frying pan" from Syros dated around 2500-2000 BC. This multi-oared galley has a long vertical prow with a fish symbol mounted on top, perhaps acting as a wind vane to detect wind direction relative to the vessel. Also the cords or beams hanging bellow the fish symbol might conceivably act as some sort of wind catching element.
Note the waves shown as spirals, indicative of the orbital motion of real sea waves.
Type I ships with similar design and fish symbol on top of prow are well attested in several Cycladic representation dated around 2500-2000 BC. This type of ship was more likely the earliest wreck discovered near the island of Dokos.
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6. Egyptian-Type Faience Produced in Britain
Understanding Bronze Age Faience in Britain and Ireland
http://journals.cambridge.org/action/displayAbstract?fromPage=online&aid=8007636
2004 MRS Fall Meeting.
Alison Sheridana1, Katherine Eremina2 and Andrew Shortlanda3
a1 Department of Archaeology, National Museums of Scotland, Edinburgh EH1 1JF, Scotland, United Kingdom
a2 Harvard University Art Museums, Cambridge, MA 02138, USA
a3 Research Laboratory for Archaeology & the History of Art, University of Oxford, Oxford OX1 3QJ, United Kingdom
ABSTRACT
Around 350 Bronze Age faience beads and pendants are known from Britain and Ireland, mostly from burials of cremated human bone. Their relationship with Near Eastern and Mediterranean faience has long been debated. A National Museums of Scotland (NMS) led international research project is investigating their origin, composition, manufacture and use (inter alia) for a Corpus of faience from Britain, Ireland and adjacent parts of mainland Europe. Non-destructive controlled-pressure scanning electron microscopy with energy dispersive microanalysis (CP-SEM-EDS), X-ray fluorescence (XRF) and binocular microscopy provide compositional and textural information without sampling or coating. Wavelength-dispersive electron microprobe (EMP) analysis of rare polished samples provides additional and more accurate compositional information. The results demonstrate that direct derivation from Egyptian or Mediterranean faience traditions can be ruled out. The beads and pendants were manufactured on a small-scale basis, using mostly a mixed alkali paste and glaze from plant ash sources (including seaweed) and a copper-based glaze colorant probably derived from bronze. Tin (or its oxide) seems to have been deliberately added. Various forming and glazing techniques were used. We have demonstrated, for the first time, that some beads were worn during cremation; and we have further investigated the effects of cremation on faience by experimentally cremating a pig wearing a newly-made faience necklace.
http://www.crumbleholme.plus.com/Beakerfolk/faience/beakerfolkfaience.htm
Faience, also known as Egyptian Paste, was produced in the Bronze Age by skilled craftsmen for use in high status jewellery and as votive objects. The Egyptians loved the turquiose effect and plastered rooms with it and made statues and vessels and other items using it. In Britain the technique was used to made beads - mainly segmented, research has shown that local materials were used, rather than the items being traded into the country from afar.
The images below show the beads made in June 2007 using modern recipes and firing techniques as the starting point for research into the production methods. These were fired in a raku kiln to about 1000C, the recipe and method used are given at the bottom of this page.
Several of these beads, and those from later trial firings, have been traded and sold during various events, alongside other goods.
This will be developed by attempting to fire the beads in a lower technology fire and then using more suitably authentic materials, which were available in the Bronze Age. Watch this page for details.
The aim is to be able to offer faience making workshops to enable people to learn the techniques and make their own jewellery.
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7. Phoenicians in West Europe: From Canaan to Cornwall & Cork
http://phoenicia.org/canaancornwall.html#ixzz3FLi3P5rA
by Harry Bourne
Extracts:
There are three other other vessels from find-spots in the British Isles that may just belong here. They are the boat-(?) bowl found at Caregwle (north Wales), the so-called "Monk's Boat" form Lough Lene (Westmeath, Ireland), the gold model of a boat from Broighter (Derry/Londonderry, Ireland).
The bowl or model of a boat/ship from Caergwle was for a very long time described as a bowl made from wood that was generally accepted as being oak, covered in gold leaf and repeating the dimensions of a currach. Recent studies have led to somewhat different conclusions. They have shown that under the gold-leaf covering is not an object of oak or any other kind of wood but shale. Also differing from past conclusions is Christopher Hawkes (cited by Johnstone ib.).
Hawkes (ib.) argued that the shape is not that of a currach but that of a Phoenician tub-shaped golah. If accepted, the attested Phoenic/Punic presence on the coasts of Portugal plus a possible analogy from north Wales in west Britain would closely parallel the 10 Greek ships proven by anchor-shanks from Setubal Bay (Portugal) and echoed by another again in north Wales but this time at Porth Felen. The Caergwle boat is of the Bronze Age but the anchor-stocks are said by Eric Boon (Antiquaries Journal 1975) to be of Iron Age date.
The material called amber has been associated with the Phoenicians for a very long time. The Greek poet named Homer has several references to the same material in the long epic poems called the Iliad and the Odyssey.
Homer tied this very firmly to the Phoenicians.
However, Strabo tells us that Nisaean horses were greatly prized in the ancient world and that they came via Armenia to Phoenicia. To the Classical or Greco/Roman source that is Strabo is added what is said by the Biblical writer that is Ezekiel. The something that was written by Ezekiel was that Armenian asses were also greatly prized and that they too were exported to Phoenicia. This clearly is in addition to the other information provided by "Ships, Navigation & Commerce" (ib.) and gives us another possibility as to routes by which east Baltic amber reached the Phoenicians.
Sources of tin are relatively scarce and there are various suggestions as to where those were from whence came the tin that came to the Phoenicians and after them, the Carthaginians. African sources that have suggested are Uganda by John Dayton (Central Africa as a Source of Phoenician Tin online), Nigeria overland to Carthage by John Sutton (Oxford Journal of Archaeology 1983), Nigeria by sea to Carthage by John Taylor (Oxford Journal of Archaeology 1982), etc.
Tin in Iberia (= Spain & Portugal) is known from several places but that in the northwest of Iberia in that province of northwest Spain that is Galicia has easily the most the most deposits and the best quality of all those in Iberia/Spain. A major difficulty in establishing Phoenico/Punic connections with Galician tin is that Phoenico/Punic finds in Iberia are increasingly scarce north of the River Minho that being in mid-Portugal approximates to halfway along the west Iberian coast.
In any case, Strabo is specific enough when stating that the Cassiterides were islands opposite the coast of territory ruled by Celts of the tribe called the Artabri. The Artabri were Celts of what is now Galicia. It cannot be claimed that these islets do no not produce tin as the Scillies do not do so either. This means that the Cassiterides were places where tin was stored till it was collected by the traders and they are likely to be have been islets in Vigo Bay.
Timaeus, Julius Caesar, Lucan, Solinus, Pliny, Avienus, Sidonius Appolinaris, etc, are the amongst the ancient writers telling us about the British leather/skin-boats called currachs and it is Pliny plus Avienus who attach this to the British tin-trade. Traders at sea using currachs is confirmed when James Hornell (Mariner's Mirror 1936) cites a story from the Brito/Welsh tale-cycle called the Mabinogion called "Branwen" saying the King of Ireland stopped all vessels trading between that part of Britain called Wales and Ireland. Patrick Joyce (A Social History of Ancient Ireland 1903) cites Cormac's Glossary ((see above) saying that the 150 currachs trading between Ulster (= north Ireland) and Scotland (= north. Britain) of the fleet of Breccan was destroyed in the whirlpool that was called Coire Breccain (= Corryvreckan = Cauldron of Breccan).
The direct Mediterrano/southern linkage is presumably strengthened by the find of a skull of Barbary ape (the type well known to us in Britain via those at Gibraltar) at Emain Macha (close to Armagh)