DNA Changes Need to be Acknowledged!
Contents:
1. 1st Message from Jaime Robert.
2. Grasshoppers become locusts which are quite different creatures!
3. 2nd Message from Jaimie.
4. Jewish DNA Compared to that of Other Peoples and what conclusions may be drawn from it.
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1. 1st Message from Jaime Robert:
Hello Yair
I've read your articles on Britam.org and found them to be very fascinating. That said, I've still got a few questions for you:
-You seem to believe that genetics (such as Y-DNA haplogroups) can be influenced by horizontal gene transfer (is it from other people or the environment, or both). If so, how come DNA tests do not AND WON'T identify, let's say an adoptee and his/her adoptive parents, as being related genetically speaking? Isn't this kind of reasoning a little bit dangerous for the simple reason that it may give credibility to ANYONE claiming to be descended from the Lost Tribes of Israel (from Black Hebrew Israelites to American Indians and Japanese)? I mean, all they have to do is claim that their genetics are non-Jewish because of the environment and/or horizontal gene transfer from their non-Jewish neighbors over the millennia, right?
-Which Y-DNA haplogroups do you believe are associated with Japheth, Ham and Shem respectively? Do you think that some specific Y-DNA haplogroups may (or may not) come from more than one patriarch? For example, is it possible that certain sub-clades of Y-DNA lineages such as R1b, I, and G are Japhetic while others may actually be Semitic? Similarly, could certain sub-clades of E1b1b (formerly known as E3b) be Hamitic while others actually Semitic?
-Last but not least, do you consider linguistics to be accurate regarding some languages while totally inaccurate regarding others?
I'll be patiently waiting for your answers.
Cheers,
Shabbat Shalom,
God Bless!
James.
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2. Grasshoppers become locusts which are quite different creatures!
Brit-Am Reply:
Grasshoppers become locusts which are quite different creatures. This happens under set conditions and it affects ALL the locusts present. It is reflected in the DNA. So too with all-encompassing massive changes in nature that are quite frquent.
Our suggestion that horizontal gene transfer causes changes in DNA markers refers to mass-changes as a result of specific historical events that rarely repeat themselves or in some cases they may or may not be quite common.
In between times it is business as usual with DNA remaining pretty much the same from one generation to another.
There is therefore no reason to expect an adopted child to have their DNA changed by their environment,
There is specific Jewish DNA. There are assemblies of Jewish people with set percentages of Different DNA types.
Genetic Studies of Jews for males show the following approximate haplotypes:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Genetic_studies_of_Jews#
E-M35 (E1b1b1) 20%
G2c- 7
J1- 20
J2 - 20
Q - 5
R1b - 10
R1a - 20
Ca. 80% of Cohens are J, half being J1 and half J2. The Cohen Gene occurs in both J1 and J2 indicating recent Genetic change in both groups as group-happenings and not individual ones.
The figures above are for Ashkenazi Jews. Sephardi Jews are similar but with differing percentages. They have more E-M35, more R1b, less R1a.
The British Isles are mostly R1b with some I and some of the others.
DNA researchers claim that originally most of the British were G2 or I1 (mistakenly written as J1 or J2) then R1b replaced them.
They says that R1b originated in the Middle East but mostly moved out to Western Europe.
They also say that in the Middle East R1b was also nearly always accompanied by J2 but in Europe it was not.
This is not logical.
The possibility of a mass horizontal gene transfer of R1b would solve numerous unresolved paradoxes.
We cannot accredit any specific type of DNA to Shem, Ham, or Japhet though attempts to do so by helpful in getting to understand the whole scenario,
See:
The Death of Darwin.
The Theory of Evolution is now Redundant!
https://hebrewnations.com/articles/race/darwindead.html
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Thank you very much for your answers Yair!
-Some sources state that Ashkenazi Jews have more like 9–10 % of R1a while others claim they have 20 % of it. Similarly, some sources say that Sephardic Jews have 12 % of R1b while others claim they have up to 30 % of it. I suppose that it all depends on the SPECIFIC Ashkenazi (or Sephardic) community sampled. BTW, how do you think these Jews acquired their R1a/b lineages in the first place? Do you believe that they got them from admixture with non-Jewish “Indo-Europeans” or environmental adaption (such as horizontal gene transfer)? Is it possible that these lineages were always present among some Israelite tribes (albeit as a minority)? Last but not least, keep in mind that Jews carry specific sub-clades of R1a/b! Jewish R1b is mostly R1b-Z2103 while Jewish R1a is almost exclusively R1a-Z93.
-Actually, scientists claim that the ancient Britons were either G2 or I2 (not J1 or J2). Truth be told, it is perfectly reasonable to assume that R1b replaced them.
-So you think that J2 turned into R1b in the Middle East? Did you know that Greeks, Armenians, and Italians (especially those from the South) carry similar Y-DNA haplogroups (in similar proportions for that matter) as Jews? Even the R1b types are the same among these peoples! How do you explain this? Are Greeks, Italians, and Armenians Israelites (or Semites) too?
-If Celto-Germanic Western Europeans are Israelites, why didn’t their ancestors practice circumcision? Why did most (if not ALL) of them eat pork? Why were they Pagans? Lastly, why didn't they speak Hebrew (or ANY OTHER Semitic language)? So many questions, so little answers!
Cheers,
God Bless!
James.
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- Brit-Am Reply:
- We are not putting forth a thesis that we need to defend. It is conventional DNA that is under criticism, not us. Even if it was not as we suggest it may have been then it was in some other way. At the least it was not as is currently presented by mainstream sources.
- In reply to your second letter:
- You said:
- # Jews carry specific sub-clades of R1a/b! Jewish R1b is mostly R1b-Z2103 while Jewish R1a is almost exclusively R1a-Z93.#
- "R1b-Z2103" Wikipedia seems to trace this to southern Russia and south of it.
- R1a-Z93 Wikipedia seems to trace this to Central Asia east of Russia.
- You said:
- # -Actually, scientists claim that the ancient Britons were either G2 or I2 (not J1 or J2). Truth be told, it is perfectly reasonable to assume that R1b replaced them. #
- In other words you imply that the R1b people exterminated all the others? Quite drastic on their part. When are they supposed to have done that?
- You said:
- # -So you think that J2 turned into R1b in the Middle East? Did you know that Greeks, Armenians, and Italians (especially those from the South) carry similar Y-DNA haplogroups (in similar proportions for that matter) as Jews? Even the R1b types are the same among these peoples! How do you explain this? Are Greeks, Italians, and Armenians Israelites (or Semites) too? #
- To have had the same haplotypes in similar proportions (as you say they did) they would, according to conventional DNA, have had to have all come together (from originally different areas) in the one place at the one time, become one united people, and then separated again. Is this logical? When did they do that? How did they do it?
- All other things being equal would it not be more logical to suggest that they had always been separate peoples but in that one particular region of the southeast Mediterranean they had been subject to similar environmental influences that resulted in DNA similarities?
You said:
-If Celto-Germanic Western Europeans are Israelites, why didn't their ancestors practice circumcision? Why did most (if not ALL) of them eat pork? Why were they Pagans? Lastly, why didn't they speak Hebrew (or ANY OTHER Semitic language)? So many questions, so little answers!
Brit-Am Reply:
The Bible and the Sages say the Ten Tribes stopped practising circumcision even before the Assyrians had exiled them. Why not eat pork if you are not observantly Jewish? Many Jews from Russia still do though their recent ancestors did not.Languages change.Welsh, Brettonic, and Irish tongues also show Semitic substructures. English also has many similarities to Hebrew, see our articles on Linguistics:https://hebrewnations.com/articles/linguistics/
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4. Jewish DNA Compared to that of Other Peoples and what conclusions may be drawn from it.
We referred to Jewish DNA above:
Genetic Studies of Jews for malles show the following approximate haplogroiups:
Conflated Results Ashkenazi Jews:
E-M35 (E1b1b1) 20%
G2c- 7
J1- 20
J2 - 20
Q - 5
R1b - 10
R1a - 20
See:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Genetic_studies_of_Jews#
Ca. 80% of Cohens are J, half being J1 and half J2. The Cohen Gene occurs in about 60% of both J1 and J2 indicating recent Genetic change in both groups as group-happenings and not individual ones.
The figures above are for Ashkenazi Jews. Sephardi Jews are similar but with differing percentages. They have more E-M35, more R1b, less R1a.
The British Isles are mostly R1b with some I and some of the others.
Jaimie said:
# Did you know that Greeks, Armenians, and Italians (especially those from the South) carry similar Y-DNA haplogroups (in similar proportions for that matter) as Jews? #
Jaimie could have added that Samaritans, Palestinians, Syrians, Kurds, and Turks are also similar to Jews.
Turks, Kurds, and Armenians are aqctually closer to Jews than the Palestinians are. This has been attributed to the Palestinians having received additional input from the Arabian Peninsula and from Africa.
At all events conventional DNA says that where the same DNA is found that means that their is an ethnic kinship,
cf.
Wikipedia
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Haplogroup_R1b
Three genetic studies in 2015 gave support to the Kurgan hypothesis of Marija Gimbutas regarding the Proto-Indo-European homeland. According to those studies, haplogroups R1b-M269 and R1a, now the most common in Europe (R1a is also common in South Asia) would have expanded from the West Eurasian Steppe, along with the Indo-European languages; they also detected an autosomal component present in modern Europeans which was not present in Neolithic Europeans, which would have been introduced with paternal lineages R1b and R1a, as well as Indo-European languages.
Does this hold together?
We see above that according to DNA the following peoples are allegedly similar to each other in the DNA sense:
Jews, Samaritans, Palestinians, Syrians, Kurds, Turks, Armenians, Greeks, Italians (especially in the south).
In these cases it is meant that:
By having similar DNA they are all made up of the same different groups in similar proportions to each other, e.g. the same proportions of J1, J2, R1b, E1b, etc.
If this was all attributed to Heredity it would mean according to Conventional Science that they all came from the same ancient stock that consisted of about 10 (or more) different peoples who all came together at some point, intermarried heavily with each other, and thoroughly intermixed with each other so that they all became the same with the same relative proportions of different haplogroups. After that they would have then split apart each going their own way.
Since the relative percentages remain similar the time of their separation could not have been that long ago. BUT no historical event is recorded that can explain such a degree of intensive mutual inter-breeding. In fact statistically it is extremely unlikely. As we said above it would be much more logical and credible to suggest that the different peoples had always been ethnically separate but they had been subject to similar environmental influences that resulted in DNA similarities.
Continued at:
British versus Jewish Genetics-2