The Claim for the Turks as being Edomites (2 March, 2015, 11 Adar, 5775)
It has been claimed that Turkey is to be identified with Edom. In general we do not concur with this.
We have been challenged to consider the issue.
In turn of a detail,ed reply we have taken an article (chosen at random) identifying Turkey with Edom and commented on it.
Does the Bible say anything about Esau and his descendants? Is Esau the ancestor of modern Turkey?
by Norbert Link
This is an interesting article. We recommend you read all of it.
Here are a few extracts followed by our comments:
# Esau was the twin brother of Jacob. Due to the fact that he sold Jacob his birthright for some red stew, he became also known as 'Edom,' which means 'red' (Genesis 25:30). Later the name Idumea (Isaiah 34:5, Authorized Version; the New King James Bible says, 'Edom') was applied to some of the descendants of Esau or Edom. Herod the Great was an Idumean. (It was Herod who killed the male babies in Bethlehem and surrounding areas, from two years old and under, compare Matthew 2:16.)
# Edom is also referred to as the land of Seir (Genesis 32:3). Edom, or at least the southern part of Edom, became known as Teman, who was Edom's oldest grandson (Genesis 36:10-11). (One of Edom's other grandsons was the fierce warrior Amalek, Genesis 36:12.) #
So far so good. Note Esau was the twin brother of Jacob. We should therefore expect some degree of similarity between the two
# We read about an interesting 'blessing' in Genesis 27:39-40, which Isaac gave to his son Esau, after he had been deceived to bless Jacob. It says that Esau or Edom would dwell 'without' [as it should be rendered] the fatness of the earth and the dew of heaven [in comparison with the blessing which Isaac had given Jacob]; and that he would live by the sword and 'serve' his brother (Jacob or Israel) [This last statement is actually a repeat of the prophecy pertaining to Jacob and Esau, which Rebekah received in Genesis 25:23].
This reading on Genesis 27:39 with the insertion of "without" is apparently found in the Apocryphal Book of Jubilees. It is therefore not a later supposition as we once thought. Nevertheless it is not according to the simple meaning of the text and not how the Sages understood it.
The King James Version is the more correct one here, i.e.
Genesis 27:39 And Isaac his father answered and said unto him, Behold, thy dwelling shall be the fatness of the earth, and of the dew of heaven from above;
Esau was blessed with material bounty and a fertile land.
Esau would live by his sword (Genesis 27:40) meaning a military race.
# Isaac also told Esau that in due time, he would break his brother's yoke from his neck. Halley's Bible Handbook claims that the Edomites 'were subservient to Israel; and in time, they did throw off Israel's yoke (II Kings 8:20-22).'
# The Church of God has taught for over sixty years that many Edomites are today to be found in the modern nation of Turkey, and that biblical prophecies relating to modern Edom mainly address the Turkish people. (As an aside, the famous mountain of Ararat where Noah's ark rested after the Flood, is situated in Turkey).
The identification of Turkey with Edom was also found in British Israelite writings. Once the COG adopted it a certain sanctity has been attached to the notion. That may explain why some enthusiasts wax quite vehement on the matter.
# The following was stated in an article by The Plain Truth, dated 1966, titled, 'Turkey in Prophecy':
# 'Turkey can be identified by research in encyclopedias, or history books dealing with the subject, as the descendants of Esau. One of the grandsons of Esau was Teman (Genesis 36:11). Teman became a great leader among the peoples. As the Edomites began to expand, portions of the land began to bear the name of Teman, much of the area, including Turkestan, became known as the 'Land of Temani' (compare Genesis 36:34 [according to the Authorized Version; the New King James Bible says: 'the land of the Temanites')! Is it any wonder then that the indelible stamp of Teman, one of the leading dukes of ancient Edom, was carried down into modern history in the form of the 'Ottoman' Empire?'
This may be true. There may be Edomites amongst the Turks but we do not think they become Edom par excellence in Biblical terms. Most inhabitants of Turkey today are not descended from the Turkish speaking tribes that came from Central Asia conquered the area of Turkey and imposed their language, and Islam, on it.
# The Ottoman Empire existed for about 400 years and ended with World War I. The Funk and Wagnalls New Encyclopedia tells us that the Ottoman Empire or the Turkish state was the dominant power in the eastern Mediterranean from the 16th to the 19th century. It was broken up at the end of World War I, and its Anatolian heartland became the modern Republic of Turkey.
# During its high days and years of conquest, the Ottoman Empire ruled over countries and areas such as Algeria, Tunisia, Yemen, Egypt, Syria, Palestine, Arabia, Iraq, Greece, Bulgaria, Serbia, Croatia, Armenia, Georgia and the Crimea, and it even besieged Austria's capitol, Vienna (in 1529). It had at that time broken the yoke of Jacob (including Jacob's son Judah) from his neck.
# The fact that the name of the Turkish Ottoman Empire is derived from or related to Teman is confirmed by other authors as well. For instance, the encyclopedia Wordnik states regarding Edom: 'Edom is O'theman of the Bible, and O'theman of the Bible is Turkey.' Also, many claim that the name 'Turk' is associated with 'Turkestan,' where, as we recall, many of the Edomites and more precisely, the Temanites, had settled. We are also told by some that the Khazars called the Byzantium Emperor the 'King of Edom.' (Note that the name Byzantium is ancient for Constantinople, which is today Turkey's capitol Istanbul.)
The Romans were considered Edomites by the Jews. The Khazars were following Jewish practice. Byzantine was the capital of the Eastern Roman Empire and it too was known as Edom. In Rabbinical writings Byzantine was nicknamed Botsrah of Edom (cf. Isaiah 34:4-10).
We therefore see the following arguments for identifying the Turks with Edom.
1. Turkestan in Central Asia were the Turkish-speaking Tribes came from was known as Teman it is claimed but no source is given here.
2. Byzantine (Constantinople) which was conquered and renamed Istanbul had been referred to as Edom due to its Roman association.
That is about all.
We could add:
3. Esau was red and hairy. The early Turkish speaking tribes in Central Asia were described by their neighbors and the Chines as red-hairedÂ though later they intermixed with Mongols and others and largely lost this trait. The Turks have been described as the hairiest people in the world.
It could by that certain groups (such as the Isaurians) who lived in Anatolia before the Turkish speaking people conquered it and became Turkish by conquest were of Edomite origin. We have found proof of Idameretz (Land of Edom) in the region of Northern Syria and Armenia overlapping with Turkey.
[Not how even the advocates of Turkey is Edom need Brit-Am to do their work for them!]
We found another article in the same vein as the first but with a little more detail:
Edom in Prophecy by Pete Benson
#Teman the son of Eliphaz was a grandson of Esau and his wife Adah the Hittite. The region of Persia and Turkestan became known as the 'land of Temani' after Teman. One of the kings of Temani was Husham, who is also called, as well see, king Hushan or Hushang in the ancient Persian king list. His native land was in ancient Persia, showing that the Edomites were already migrating out of their ancient land of Edom in what is now southwestern Jordan and the Negev region of Israel. Archeological studies in pottery connect this Sialk culture to Turkestan.
He gives more details concerning the Turkish-speaking peoples of which there are ca. 90 million today and include:
Turkic Azeris, Kazaks, Kirgiz, Turkomans and Uzbeks [who] roughly equal the number of Turks in Turkey itself.
The name Teman in Hebrew means "south" and in quite common. The land known to us as Yemen in the south of the Arabian Peninsula is known as "Teman" in Hebrew. Finding this name elsewhere may be significant but more than that is needed.
In principle we identify the Turkish peoples as descendants of Togarmah son of Gomer son of Japhet. This is in line with general Rabbinical tradition. The area of Turkestan in Central Asia was indeed known in Ancient Times as Togar.
For a claim that Edom is Spain and the Latin Americans see:
Who Is Esau or Edom in Bible Prophecy?
by HOIM Staff
In a coming article we shall prove that Edom par excellence is Germany and Ancient Rome.
In this article we shall return to the matter of Turkey and point out that the Turks do not really fulfill the needed criteria whereas the Germans do.