Continental Europe versus Turkey as Identifications (24 February, 2015, 5 Adar, 5775)
Contents:
1. Introduction. Alexander Zephyr and his Book - a Recommended Read
2. Letter of Protest over Identifications. Is Edom Turkey and not Continental Europe?
3. Brit-Am Reply: Germany and Rome from Edom
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1. Introduction.
Alexander Zephyr and his Book - a Recommended Read
Zephyr has just published a new work. Many of you will remember him from the articles he posted to our web-sites. He writes well and always has interesting information to impart even when we disagree with him.
See:
Psalm 83: A New Discovery
By Alexander Zephyr
http://bookstore.iuniverse.com/Products/SKU-000961894/Psalm-83-A-New-Discovery.aspx
http://www.amazon.com/Psalm-83-A-New-Discovery/dp/149175074X
In the letter below, Zephyr takes issue with us over our identification of Edom in some contexts with Continental Europe in general.
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2. Letter of Protest over Identifications. Is Edom Turkey and not Continental Europe?
Alex Zephyr wrote:
Hello Yair,
A few days ago I accidentally run across your commentary on Psalm 83
http://britam.org/psalms/psalms83.html
which drawn my attention. What strikes me and makes a good impression, is the fact that today as then in the past (I am not sure when exactly you wrote it), you are of the same opinion that Psalm 83 is a prophecy which "can be applied both to the situation of the present State of Israel as well as a future situation." Contrary to the well known theologians, such as Steven Collins, Joel Richardson, Thomas Ice and many others, you are firmly recognize the prophecy of Asaph as aiming for the future.
I salute you for this! So far, so good.
But when you come to the definition of the plotting modern nations, sorry to say it, those identifications greatly confuse me. Particularly, when you speak of Edom and Assur. You know, this was exactly the reason I wrote the book on Psalm 83.
http://bookstore.iuniverse.com/Products/SKU-000961894/Psalm-83-A-New-Discovery.aspx
http://www.amazon.com/Psalm-83-A-New-Discovery/dp/149175074X
I would like to stress out here that this discussion chiefly concerns prophecies of Psalm 83.
"EDOM is mainly Continental Europe," you wrote. You feel that Europe should be an important part of this evil coalition. I am in agreement with this. The Europe must have its part in the Biblical prophetic future. But not as Edom. You have always taught that all prophecies have to be connected. There are many prophecies of Edom in Scripture for the End Times which are not point out on Europe at all (Obadiah 1:10,18; Ezekiel 35:3,5; Isaiah 34:5; Jeremiah 49:7-22 ). My sense is that the prophecies speak of one country and one Edomite nation (Turkey). "For, lo, I will make you small among the heathen and despised among men" (Jeremiah 49:15). This description of Edom is not compatible with the Continental European Empire. The Israelites could not possibly defeat the "Continental Europe," but God says that He "will lay My vengeance on Edom by the hands of My people Israel" (Ezekiel 25:14). Some prophecies give even the geographical coordinates of Edom country, "For the Lord Almighty will offer sacrifice in the land of the north by Euphrates River" (Jeremiah 46:10). The Euphrates River has nothing to do with Europe. The Biblical descriptions of the destruction of the land of Edom are also cannot be applicable to the lands of the "Continental Europe," because Scripture speaks of one land of Edom and presumably of one country (Jeremiah 49:18, 21; Isaiah 34:5, 9-10; Obadiah 1:13-14). For you to name Edom as the "Continental Europe" in Psalm 83 must mean that Edom will be portrayed as the military and political leader representing the mighty powerful Empire of European Union. The simple reading of the text does not lead to this conclusion. Although Edom placed first in the list of the plotters, the prophet Asaph made no distinction between Edom and other participants. He enumerated nations one after another as the same and equal in their status. If Edom meant "Continental Europe," the prophet would show it significance, because one cannot compare mighty Europe with the countries such as Lebanon, Jordan, or the Saudi Arabia. Not to go in deep details, I state that Europe does not feet the Biblical descriptions of Edom (Obadiah, Genesis 27:39-40) and Edom of Psalm 83 is not the "Continental Europe." Edom here is Turkey and her tabernacles or tents of refugees may include the Palestinians who are the descendants of Amalek, the grandson of Edom (sub-tribe of Esau).
Assur is all together different matter.
See how Asaph treated Assur: "Assur also is joined with them, to help the children of Lot."
What does it mean?
It means that Assur here is separate and different geographically, politically, and even racially from the other plotters, militarily capable to help Jordan (and the rest of allies) and one who calls the shots. Assur cannot be substituted by Iraq, Iran, Syria or Turkey (on the premises that Assyria in the time of Asaph occupied the territories of these countries) for the simple reason, all of above countries will be defeated and subjugated by the victorious king of the north, which is the Assur-Germany led coalition of "Continental Europe." This will happen before the wars of Psalm 83 commence. Most Bible prophecy experts seem to believe that the next major prophetic war in the Middle East is likely to be what the Bible
calls the War of Gog and Magog (Ezekiel 38-39). Others believe the next war prophesied in end time is going to be the war described in Psalm 83. Personally, I believe that neither of the above mentioned wars will be the next one, except the wars of the kings of the north and south described by the prophet Daniel (11:40-45). These wars will happen before events of Psalm 83. To me, Assur of Psalm 83 is the same entity as the king of the north in Daniel 11:40, in both prophecies will fall in the land of Israel not by the human sword but by the hand
of the Almighty.
If scholars pay enough attention to generally overlooked (or not understood) prophecies of Daniel 11:36-45, there would not be so much confusion in identification of the nations, timing, order and other matters. It would be clear for everyone that the king of the south is Iran and the king of the north is Assur-Germany, who will strike Iran nuclear installations (Jeremiah 49:35-39), destroy Iran, Iraq, Syria, Egypt, Libya, and Ethiopia and later on take leadership in Psalm 83 confederacy in a plot against Israel, but will fall in the "glorious land" not by the human sword (Isaiah 14:25; 31:8). Edom, I repeat, will fall by the hands of the Israelites.
All these things were well understood and taught by H. Armstrong. In my book the arguments are deeper and more detailed. The knowledge of these prophecies is very important and absolutely relevant to the subject of the Ten Tribes.
Shalom,
Alex Zephyr
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3. Brit-Am Reply: Germany and Rome from Edom
We wrote a series of articles on Edom, see: Esau and the Edomites
http://www.britam.org/Edom/EsauContents.html
We did not complete though quite a bit of relevant information was given. [Incidentally on this subject too, a nice and valuable book could be published one day]. We showed that Edom became a number of kingdoms as well as several different groups of [mainly military] elite bodies that gained control over other nations.
The term Edom could therefore have many different applications. It all depends on the context. The term Edom could therefore apply to Continental Europe as a whole if Edomites gain control of it.
You quoted:
"For, lo, I will make you small among the heathen and despised among men" (Jeremiah 49:15).
This recalls the expression in Obadiah,
Obadiah 1:
2 I will surely make you least among the nations;
you shall be utterly despised.
The Sages said this referred to the Roman Emperors who allowed themselves to be serviced as if they were women, i.e. as catamites (cf. Adolf H.).
The Sages (Tamud Megilla 6) also said that Rome and the German nations were Edomites and if they ever united they would attempt to destroy the world. Well, they did unite.
Mussolini attempted to revive the Roman Empire and he joined himself to Hitler and they went forward to try and obliterate humane humanity.
This too, is proof of identification of the founders of Rome and part of the Germans with Edom.