Messiah son of Joseph and Messiah son of David.
Considerations of Rabbi Kessin.
How many Messiahs are there? Messiah son of Joseph and Messiah son of David.
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Contents:
A. Queries from Art Leskov.
B. Replies from Brit-Am.
1. The Two Messiahs.
2. Attitude of Many Orthodox Rabbis to the Lost Ten Tribes and the Brit-Am Subject.
3. Esau and Joseph.
4. Rabbi Mendel Kessin.
5. Other Messiahs.
6. Joseph and Esau.
7. Joseph should help Judah - including Brit-Am.
8. Joseph in Disguise. Sources.
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A. Queries from Art Leskov
Q. I may be seeing different ways of expressing the same thing
or seeing differences of opinion on the subject(s) below
but, perhaps, you could be helpful in clarifying these things.
None of the questions here have to do with THE Messiah (Mashiach ben David) but many Rabbis speak of Messiah ben Joseph (or maybe Mashiach ben Ephraim).
1. Could you help clarify this issue of the two Messiahs and something of their roles and differences?
I am under the impression that the literal return of the 'lost' Tribes of Israel is not unknown amongst the Orthodox sages, however, the topic seems to be assiduously avoided today -- as far as I can tell. I got the sense from R' Mizrachi that he believes the Tribes are lost and gone forever ... and good riddance. I cannot point to his specific statement to that effect and I could have misunderstood but that certainly seems like what he has said.
R' Kessin has never, to my memory, spoken of the Ten Tribes of Israel directly but he does often refer to Edom -- the descendants of Esau -- in ways that seem similar to what I would attribute to the Northern Tribes. And I cannot recall that he has ever mentioned Messiah ben Joseph per se. He also cites "Messianic Figures" who, I surmise, are public individuals contributing in a significant manner to the restoration and the coming of THE Messiah.
2. Could you comment on the Orthodox view(s) pertaining to the subject of the Ten Tribes vis-a-vis Edom/Esau?
3. R' Kessin often refers to Donald Trump as a Messianic Figure. Does my understanding of what he means make sense from your perspective?
4. More recently R' Kessin described Donald Trump as the Messiah ben Edom (in Shiur #114 https://youtu.be/Zphcpbomq9A?t=39m47s). Can you help give us the context of how these things relate to each other?
5. If all this makes sense, maybe PM Netanyahu is Messiah ben Levi? :)
Thanks for your diligent work,
--
Art Leerskov
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B. Replies from Brit-Am.
Note. The Answers below are not necessarily those of Orthodox Rabbis in general but rather of BRIT-AM/HEBREW AWARENESS in the light of the Hebrew Bible, Jewish Sources, and Rabbinical Commentaries, as well as Historical Sources in general.
Brit-Am cannot be considered the voice of Jewish Orthodoxy but nothing we say contradicts it whereas all other opinions (not those of Brit-Am) may be said to do so.
Gentile Believers in the Lost Ten Tribes in the West who are interested in Orthodox Jewish sources and support do not have an open "Supermarket" before them from which they can choose the most attractively packaged most user-friendly produce.
For the moment, it is either Brit-Am or nothing! This may change in the future but for the moment it does not seem to have done so.
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1. The Two Messiahs.
Messiah son of David.
Messiah son of David is the Messiah prophesied by the Bible. He is a descendant of David (Isaiah 11:1) who will lead the Jews back to the Torah (Isaiah 1:26-27, Hosea 3:4-5, Ezekiel 37:2-4) and ingather the exiles. He will also help bring the Ten Tribes back, enable each Israelite know to which Tribe they belong to (Malachi 3:3, referring to the Tribe of Levi but according to tradition the same principle will apply to all the other Tribes), and rule over all Israelites, cf. Aryeh Kaplan, "Handbook of Jewish Thought," vol.2, 1992. Eventually the Messiah son of David will rule over all mankind and bring peace and justice to the world.
Micah (NKJV) 4:
1 Now it shall come to pass in the latter days
That the mountain of the LORD's house
Shall be established on the top of the mountains,
And shall be exalted above the hills;
And peoples shall flow to it.
2 Many nations shall come and say,
'Come, and let us go up to the mountain of the LORD,
To the house of the God of Jacob;
He will teach us His ways,
And we shall walk in His paths.'
For out of Zion the law shall go forth,
And the word of the LORD from Jerusalem.
3 He shall judge between many peoples,
And rebuke strong nations afar off;
They shall beat their swords into plowshares,
And their spears into pruning hooks;
Nation shall not lift up sword against nation,
Neither shall they learn war anymore.
Messiah son of Joseph
Messiah son of Joseph means different things to different people but the different aspects are not necessarily contradictory.
Some say he represents the physical side of reality and will strengthen the Jewish people helping prepare them for the Final Redemption.
Sources concerning the Messiah son of Joseph may speak of him expressly or may discuss the symbolic significance of Joseph son of Jacob who fathered the Tribes of Ephraim and Manasseh. Others say the Messiah son of Joseph is the future leader of the Lost Ten Tribes who will initiate their return to Righteousness and re-unification with Judah (see Malbim on Ezekiel 37, Kol HaTor).
Brit-Am agrees with the understanding that both attributes are correct. Most authorities appear to incline to such an understanding. The Messiah son of Joseph embodies both attributes (physical and spiritual) and in a sense symbolizes the Lost Ten Tribes as led by Joseph in general. MBJ may be said to represent future physical and spiritual developments among the Jews parallelled by a physical reality in the Lost Ten Tribes. Physically Joseph comes to expression through his descendants in the English-speaking peoples.
In the End Times the Book of Obadiah predicts that Joseph will wage war against Edom. Later sources say that when this happens the Ten Tribes will be led by the Messiah son of Joseph.
Descendants of Joseph are predominant today among the English-speaking peoples.
They had a tradition of helping the Jews from the 1800s, and in some ways long before that. They also helped save the Jews after the Holocaust and establish the State of Israel. Since then they, especially the USA, have been the main supporters of the Jewish People in the Land of Israel and outside it. They still are on the whole allies and supporters of Israel.
Not only that but if increased support for Israel from the Gentiles is envisaged they (along with other descendants of the Ten Tribes) are the most likely ones to supply it.
This is the task of Joseph and they are descendants of Joseph.
The Messiah son of Joseph represents the descendants of Joseph in fulfillment of their destined ancestral duty.
He is ALSO most likely a real person who will personify the attributes of Joseph the Patriarch.
Belief in the Messiah son of David is an Article of Faith.
Belief in the Messiah son of Joseph is NOT an Article of Faith, but more of a recent ongoing revelation which is widely held, and is based on numerous ancient sources and traditions.
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2. Attitude of Many Orthodox Rabbis to the Lost Ten Tribes and the Brit-Am Subject.
Concerning the attitude of Rabbi Mizrachi and others as you understood it.
A Protestant Pastor one asked me how Jewish Rabbis are relating to the work of Brit-Am?
Are they pleased with the possibility of having more charges to look after?
I replied that most Rabbis concentrate on the here and now, i.e. what needs to be done immediately, and that which there is no doubt about.
They are not looking for new responsibilities, I said. They feel they already have enough trouble with the Jews.
The Pastor laughed.
R' Mizrachi is often worth listening to but he is down-to-earth.
Most Rabbis are like that.
Brit-Am appeals to those who feel an inner arousal in that direction. They are often also involved in studies of prophecy, history, of geo-political realities, genealogies, eschatological (end-of-days) matters, and so on.
Many leading Rabbis of the past actually seem to have mentioned the Lost Ten Tribes on occasion and some of them fairly regularly.
Others discuss related matters such as the significance of Joseph, etc.
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3. Esau and Joseph
Esau is also known as Edom. Esau was the twin-brother of Jacob who was renamed Israel. Jacob took the blessing from Esau by disguising himself as Esau. Esau planned to kill Jacob so Jacob fled to Laban, who became his father-in-law. Jacob begat 12 sons. These sons were the ancestors of the 12 Tribes. Edom also gave rise to numerous descendants. The Edomites had their own land to the southeast of Israel. In addition to that descendants of Esau became rulers and military ruling elites throughout much of the world.
In Rabbinical thought Esau came to represent Gentile Civilization. Esau was considered to be especially dominant among Christian peoples such as Germany, Russia, and others.
Descendants of Esau are to be found in two sections, (1) Amalek, and (2) Edom in general. The first is more implacable in his hatred of Israel than the second. We have books on these matters: Esau, and Edom and Germany.
Joseph is the leading element among the Ten Tribes. They were exiled, lost consciousness of their ancestry, and became like the Gentiles. Just as Joseph was sold into exile and became like the Egyptians and eventually to rule over Egypt so too with the Ten Tribes. Joseph to a degree intermixed with Edomites, and adopted aspects of Edomite Culture, see below.
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4. Rabbi Mendel Kessin
https://www.torahanytime.com/#/speaker?l=331
Rabbi Mendel Kessin is an internationally renowned lecturer and educator and has spoken extensively around the world including in the United States, Europe, South Africa, Canada and Israel on topics of Hashkafa [Jewish Philosophy], Learning Methodology and Shmiras Haloshon (proper speech) with emphasis on the writings of R' Moshe Chaim Luzzatto (Ramchal). Rabbi Kessin received Simichah [Rabbinical Ordination] from Rabbi Moshe Feinstein and held a close relationship with Rav Chaim Friedlander... and helped with the publication of his Sifrei Haramchal (Books of Rabbi Chaim Luzzatto) (green collection). He has a PhD in Psychology from Fordham University in NY and runs a private practice in Brooklyn and Lakewood.
R' Kessin seems to believe that Esau (Edom) has two aspects, a positive and a negative one.
R' Kessin appears to be well-learned and qualified. Nevertheless even he would probably admit that his approach is something of a maverick one. His sources may be obscure.
Rabbi Kessin speaks of a Positive Side to Esau whereas Brit-Am teaches that Joseph is in a sense in disguise as part of Esau.
We have articles on this subject. See below.
The "Positive Aspect of Esau" favored by Rabbi Kessin could be understood to be close in essence to Joseph disguised as Esau.
Nevertheless, there is a difference.
Joseph at base derives from the realm of goodness. Esau is different.
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5. Other Messiahs.
Concerning Donald Trump and Bibi Netanyahu as some kind of Messianic figures we will live and see. These concepts are all relatively new ones and not widely known or accepted.
First let the people in question carry out whatever task Divine Providence has given them and after that we can think about it.
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6. Joseph and Esau.
Joseph Disguised as Esau
The Subterfuge of Jacob as a Prototype
https://hebrewnations.com/articles/bible/disguise.html
The Ten Tribes were exiled by Edom. In their Places of Exile they were at first ruled over by Edomites. They learned the same language and adopted the same culture and religion. It was as if they had disguised themselves as Edomites in order to receive the blessings that otherwise were intended for Esau. This is the same as the case of Jacob who also disguised himself. The intention of Isaac had been to bless Esau. Jacob took the blessings by disguising himself as Esau. The Ten Tribes had to do the same.
In the End Times the Jews (Judah) and the Ten Tribes will re-unite (Isaiah 11:12, Ezekiel 37:16-24).
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7. Joseph should help Judah - including Brit-Am.
Another aspect of the blessings was to take the role originally designated for Esau. Rabbinical commentators opine that one of the reasons Isaac wished to bless Esau with physical wealth and might was in order that Esau assist Jacob in spiritual matters. Rebecca realized that both the spiritual and physical blessings should go to Jacob. She helped Jacob receive the blessing by subterfuge. Later, Joseph received from Jacob that which had been taken from Esau. Joseph has the task originally intended for Esau. Joseph should therefore assist Judah who in some ways is a continuation of Jacob. This is what is meant by the Midrash when it says that in order to return Israel needs to accept God, accept the Kingdom of David, and to rebuild the Temple.
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8. Joseph in Disguise.
Sources:
Disguise as Prototype
The Blessings to Jacob and Esau.
https://hebrewnations.com/articles/bible/protdisguise.html
1. The Birth of Jacob and Esau. A Prophesy of Eternal Conflict
2. Jacob Acquires the Birthright from Esau
3. Jacob and Esau Receive their Blessings
4. Was Jacob in the Wrong to Deceive Isaac?
5. The Disguise of Jacob and the Ten Tribes
6. The Future Punishment of Edom for Persecution of the Jews and the Holocaust?
7. Moral Considerations
8. The Duty of Israel i.e. the Ten Tribes to Return to the Law
9. Conclusion: A Prophecy and a Prophetic Prototype.