Plautus

Linguistic Evidence Comparing Irish to Punic Phoenician (23 November, 2014, 1 Kislev, 5775)

Contents:
1. Introduction
2. Punic, Phoenician, and Hebrews
3. Plautus in 200 BCE in Effect Equated Irish with Punic Hebrew! Charles Vallancey.
4. Roger O'Connor and Plautus
5. The Relevant Passages in Plautus.
6. Linguistic Conclusions?
7. Descendants of Israel
8. Cristian Sildan: A Divergent Opinion
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1. Introduction
There is proof that the Irish once spoke a tongue similar to that of the Phoenicians.
Present-day Irish has been influenced by European languages especially Latin.
This is hardly surprising since the Irish scholars were often Churchmen and anyone who was literate was taught in Latin.
Within the Irish tongue exist dialects and various records of variant forms.
It is usually agreed that Irish has a Semitic or Semitic-Hamitic substratum along with many words of Semitic origin.
We trace the Irish as well as the Welsh, Scottish, English, and other peoples of western Europe to the Lost Ten Tribes. They reached the west from the east at different times, following differing pathways, and under varying circumstances. The experience of one group was not that of the other.
Proofs of Israelite origin exist throughout the separate tribes and groupings of Hebrew origin in the west. Each complements the other.
With the Welsh and Irish the proofs include linguistic evidence.
One of these proofs involves extracts from a play by the Roman playwright Plautus (254-184 BCE). Plautus has his character say a few sentences in Punic the language of Carthage. These are very similar to a direct translation into Irish or a certain dialect of it. This means that the Punic language and Irish were effectively almost the same.
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2. Punic, Phoenician, and Hebrews

Carthage was founded by Phoenicians from Tyre. It spoke the Phoenician tongue.

Punic language
From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Punic_language
The Punic language, also called Carthaginian or Phoenicio-Punic, is an extinct variety of the Phoenician language, a Canaanite language of the Semitic family. It was spoken in the Carthaginian empire in North Africa and several Mediterranean islands by the Punic people from about 800 BC to 600 AD. The Punics stayed in contact with Phoenicia until the destruction of Carthage by the Roman Republic in 146 BC.

Archaeological indications are that at least a section of the Ancient Israelites from the Ten Tribes before their Exile also spoke a dialect of Hebrew similar to that of Phoenicia. At all events the two languages were quite close.

"...the words most commonly in use, the particles, the pronouns, the forms of the verb, the principal inflections (and we may add, the numerals) in Phoenician are identical, or nearly identical, with the pure Hebrew." -George Rawlinson, Phoenicia, p.24 (citing Renan, Histoire des Languages Semitiques, pp. 189-190).

There were close connections between Israelites especially those of the Northern Kingdom of Israel and Phoenicia.
Jezebel the wife of King Ahab of Israel was a Phoenician princess.

1-Kings 16:
31 And as if it had been a light thing for him to walk in the sins of Jeroboam son of Nebat, he took as his wife Jezebel daughter of King Ethbaal of the Sidonians, and went and served Baal, and worshipped him.

See:
Israelites and Phoenicians. Did Israelites and Phoenicians Settle Colonies Together?
http://jewsandjoes.com/israelites-and-phoenicians.html

During a famine the Prophet Elishah went to live in the house of a widow in Zaraphath in Phoenicia.

1 Kings 17:
8 Then the word of the Lord came to him, saying,
9'Go now to Zarephath, which belongs to Sidon, and live there; for I have commanded a widow there to feed you.'

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3. Plautus in 200 BCE in Effect Equated Irish with Punic Hebrew! Charles Vallancey.

This has been known for some time and mentioned in the relevant literature.

# The language that the Latin writer of comedy, Plautus, put in the mouth of Phoenicians in his comedy Poenulus is almost the same language that the Irish peasants speak today, according to the critic Vallancey. # ON ANCIENT IRISH HISTORY by Ann Morrison Fishe

Charles Vallancey
From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Charles_Vallancey
General Charles Vallancey FRS (6 April 1731 - 8 August 1812) was a British military surveyor sent to Ireland. He remained there and became an authority on Irish antiquities, though his theories were later judged to be fanciful and groundless.

# What this language was is proved by the words of the Phoenician or Carthagenian slave in the Poenulus of Plautus being nearly pure Irish, as spoken only last century. It is shown in a pamphlet printed in Dublin in 1772, 'Essay on the Antiquity of the Irish Language.' The Phoenician language was identical with the Hebrew. The same passage in Plautus may be found transliterated into Hebrew in the Transactions Bib. Arch., Part 2, Vol. 2, 1874. # Walt Baucum, "Bronze Age Atlantis", Jerusalem, 2008, ch18

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4. Roger O'Connor and Plautus

Roger O'Connor published the Chronicles of Eri in 1832. In a kind of Appendix which he calls a "Demonstration" to Volume 1 of his work he quotes the relevant passage of Plautus along with the Irish equivalent and an English translation.

We have spoken about Roger O'Connor and the Chronicles of ERi in a separate article.
See:
Eerie Eri. An Unusual Source and Ten Tribes History
http://hebrewnations.com/articles/myth/irish/eri2.html

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5. The Relevant Passages in Plautus.

We bring below verbatim extracts from O'Connor concerning the relevant passages in Plautus. These are valuable since while Plautus may be mentioned here and there the actual extracts are usually not provided.

Vol. 1 Demonstration p. ccxli ff.

A comic writer of Rome named Plautus, amongst others of his works, wrote a piece, called Poenulos, anglice the Carthaginian, in which he introduces a scene, representing Hanno going in quest of his two daughters, who, with their nurse, had been stolen by pirates, and sold to one, who had conveyed them to Kaludon of Oetulus, where having arrived upon intelligenceo f the faqct, he addressed himself to the deity of that land, of the title of whom, though he a stranger, was ignorant, he knew the people of the country had many gods; therefore makes his supplication to the chief, which Plautus has preserved in the Phoenician language, as Shakespeare has done in those pieces where he introduces natives of France. Whom he represents speaking in their own tongues.

You are to note, that the first line is Carthaginian, the second line is Iberian of Eri [i.e. Irish]. And the third is the servile translation thereof into English.

I.
Nith al o nim, ua lonuth sicoathissi ma com syth

An iath al a nin, uaillonnac socriudd se me com ait.

O mighty splendor of the land, renowned, powerful; let him quiet me with repose.

II.
Chin lach chunyth mumys tyal mycthii barii imi achi

Cim laig cungan, muin is toil, mo iocd bearad iar mo agit.

Help of the weary captive, instruct me according to thy will to recover my children after my fatigue.

III.
Liph o can etyth by mithii ad sedin binuthi

Libh a can atac be mitis, ad eaden beannuigte.

With thee O let a pure hope be in due season, in thy blessed presence.

IV.

Byr nar ob sillo homal O nim ubym l syrhoho,

Bir nar ob sillad uimal a nim, ibim a srota.

Deny not a drop of the fountain to the humble, O splendor, I drink at the streams.

V.

Byth-lym, mo thim nocto, thii ne lech anti dias ma chon,

Bi tu le me, mo time nocta, ni leg tu onta dis mo coine,

Be propitious, my fear being respectfully revealed, suffer not my miserable daughters to be stained with pollution.

This address to the unknown deity of the country being concluded, Hanno having had information that his daughters were in the temple of Venus, hastes thither, and utters the following sentiment on the recollection of the attributes of this goddess.


Handone silii hantum bene, silh in mus-tine

Andon sillei anam feni, sillei san baois tetgne.

Although Venus instils vigor, she also instils the fire of concupiscence.


And now having met with Giddeneme the nurse of his daughters, and reproached her, she replies,


Meipsi en este dum, alam na cestin um

Meisi sin; est do me; alam ni ceisd tu me

Respected judge, listen to me, do not hastily question me, (that is) call my fidelity in question.

There is no necessity to offer any remark on the above, such as that; Plautus was a Roman, and must be supposed to have introduced some letter of his characters of his own nation, not known in Carthage, as the h and y, (and these are the only Roman letters in these lines) nor yet whether he copied in Phoenician or Roman figures, nor yet whether many , few, or any errors have been occasioned in intervening transcripts..

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6. Linguistic Conclusions?

Most of us do not know Irish. A few are familiar with Hebrew but none with Punic.
Nevertheless the quotations seem accurate enough.
If such is the case it means, based on this evidence alone, that the Anicient Irish were definitely at least in part descendants of Hebrews or Phoenicians or both or ruled over them with sufficient weight to determine the language they spoke.
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7. Descendants of Israel

Descendants of the Ten Tribes are Amongst Western Peoples. This includes those of Ireland, Wales, Scotland, and related areas.
Linguistic evidence is not proof. In Jamaica they speak English but most are not descended from Englishmen. Nevertheless the English language shows that Englishmen were there.
So too, proving the Lost Ten Tibes were present in a certain area could be an important step forward.
See Also:

Hebrew Linguistic Traits in Welsh

http://britam.org/language.html

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8. Cristian Sildan: A Divergent Opinion

Peace Yair,
Concerning Plautus, there are observations to make.

 

Well, it is undeniable that the text sounds surprisingly like Gaelic, but it seems to me that there are serious differences as far as separation of the words and their translation are concerned, when we compare the translation of the Irish guy you spoke about vs the translation of various professors:

HANNO to himself .

 

Hyth alonim, vualonuth sicorathi si ma com sith, Chi mach chumyth mumys tyal mictibariim ischi, Lipho canet luth bynuthi ad ædin bynuthii. Birnarob syllo homalonin uby misyrthoho Bythym mothym noctothii velech Antidasmachon. Yssidele berim thyfel yth chylys chon, tern, lyphul Uth bynim ysdibut thinno cuth ru Agorastocles Ythe manet ihy * * chyrsæ lycoch sith naso Byuni id chil luhili gerbylim lasibit thym Bodyalyth herayn nyn nuys lym moncoth lusim.
[Exalonim volanus succuratim mistim Atticum esse Concubitum a bello cutim beant lalacant chona Enus es huiec silec panesse Athidamascon Alem * * induberte felono * * buthume Celtum comucro lueni, at enim avoso uber Bent hyach Aristoclem et se te aneche nasoctelia Elicos alemus [in] duberter mi comps vespiti Aodeanee lictor bodes jussum limnicolus.]
1 Hyth alonim: These eighteen lines (or, at least, the first ten) are in Punic, the native language of Hanno. The following is the meaning of them, as given by Plautus in the next eleven lines:

 

"I worship the Gods and Goddesses who preside over this city, that I may have come hither with good omen as to this business of mine, on which I have come; and, ye Gods, lend me your aid, that you may permit me to find my daughters and the son of my cousin; those who were stolen away from me, and his son from my cousin. But here lived formerly my guest Antidamas. They say that he has done that which he was doomed to do. They say that his son Agorastocles lives here. To him am I carrying with me this token of hospitality. He has been pointed as living in this neighbourhood. I'll make enquiry of these who are coming hither out of doors."

 

The learned Bochart, in his Phaleg, considers that the first ten lines are Punic, and that the other eight are, possibly, Lybic, of which the sense had been previously given in Punic; and, in fact, he quite despaired of translating them His translation of the first ten very nearly agrees with that given by Plautus himself.

 

Samuel Petit, in his Miscellanea, considers the whole to be Hebrew, and translates his version (which consists of sixteen lines) as follows:
 
1. Give ear and attend, O Gods and Goddesses, under whose protection are the men of this city.
2. Receive as acceptable my prayers and my integrity. TwO daughters did I beget, my strength.
3. Urged on by fate, I caused them on each feast-day of the Gods to go to the gardens.
4. With much rejoicing, and on the day of song, there was a void.
5. The girls, being stolen, forsook me. Whither shall I go, pacing all chambers?
6. Where is he who bore them away? that I may remove the helplessness of my sorrow which he produces for me like fruit, in being the father of, and rearing, children.
7. They have said that here, assuredly, Agorastocles lives.
8. I have a token of hospitality, the likeness of Saturn (I'm carrying it),
9. Between us. May there be some end for my journey, that rest at last may be afforded to my integrity.
10. So that alone and wretched and afflicted I may not wander to and fro but rather that I may meet with my children, and pay my vows and oblations
11. To the Gods and Goddesses whom I've invoked as my advisers and assistants,
12. To purify my house from the griefs with which I was affected when I praised them. But they heard not my words, and I am most afflicted and am despondent in mind.
13. O my hope, come hither, and whatever troubles await me, cause me to endure them. Take courage from the truth of oracles, and of the responses of the God .., from divinations, and forewarnings, and prodigies.
14. Be thou speedily fulfilled; arouse thyself and pray. Would that they could hear: grief would depart from a devout parent, and I should recognize Aristocles, my brother's son.
15. Attentively hear this lamentation, O God, my power, make haste to the truth of thy promise of my exaltation, O God, and my evil odours shall cease.
16. Lo! from henceforth will I to the best of my means show honor, sacrificing spelt to all the Gods, and singing praises!!!
 
The translation seems to me very different, although there is a certain similarity of "atmosphere"/context about it.

 

In one instance, we have Antidasmachon, rendered by the irish guy as the separate irish words ''anti dias ma chon'', when in fact it's a name.

 

Also there are sizeable differences of meaning and opinion between the versions of the learned linguists.

 

I would say let's not jump too much of joy on this.

 

It's well enough it looks similar to Gaelic and, as it seems to me, there really are some similar terms in there.

 

But we would better organize some discussion between a Hebrew speaker and a Gaelic one.

 

You speak Hebrew, modern it is true, but still similar to th old I imagine, so we should find a guy who knows as much as possible Irish, maybe he could tell us a more educated/insider opinion about old Gaelic.

 

All the best,

 

Cristian