Objections Refuted. Part Three of Truly Earnest (14 December, 2014, 22 Kislev, 5775)
Continued from Truly Earnest
A Refutation of the article:
The Not Lost Tribes of Israel. Who and Where Are the Northern Ten Tribes of Israel Today?
by Ernest L. Martin, Ph.D.
http://www.soundchristian.com/tribes/
Part Three: Despite Proof from the Bible!
Ernest Kept His Previous Misconceptions!
The Fate of the Northern Ten Tribes.
Martin:
One of the primary prophetic teachings concerning the fate of the Northern Ten Tribes of Israel is the fact that they would become "wanderers among the nations" (Hosea 9:17). Amos said the same thing. "For, lo, I will command, and I will sift the house of Israel among all nations, like as corn is sifted in a sieve, yet shall not the least grain fall upon the earth" (Amos 9:9).
Now note this point carefully. The Celts, Angles, Saxons and Danes have never been "wanderers among the nations" (the Gentile nations of the earth), nor have they been "sifted in a sieve among all nations" (that is, among all Gentile nations). Indeed, the Celts, Angles, Saxons and Danes have been peoples who have in the main steadfastly developed their national existences in their own territories (with stable and politically secure countries). They have even reached out to control other peoples of the world in a colonial and imperial manner. In no way could such people (throughout all their history) be called "wanderers among the nations" or those who have been "sifted in a sieve among all nations." With these people in particular, just the opposite has been the case.
BA:
Martin denounces belief in the Ten Tribes yet he clings to the stereotyped typology derived from British Israel type groups and which, as he testifies, he was nourished from.
In so far, as the British Israelite linked associations say that the Lost Tribes are amongst western peoples they are in the right. Some of their proofs and preconceptions however may be in error
and it is these adversaries such as Martin prefer to deal with.
The term House of Israel is not applied ONLY to the Ten Tribes, as Martin assumes.
The term House of Israel and similar titles can mean both the Ten Tribes and Judah. It may also be applied to the Ten Tribes alone. In addition it is sometimes used for descendants of the Kingdom of Judah who also included a minority representation from the other tribes. It all depends on the context and on the prophet in question. Ezekiel, for instance, applies the words almost solely to Judah except where he expressly says otherwise in speaking of both Judah and the Ten Tribes. The term is used often. In the other prophets, apart from Ezekiel, it means Judah almost half the time. The combination "House of Judah and House of Israel" and the like is usually applied to the Jews and the Ten Tribes together. Even here however we found instances where it meant mainly Judah (e.g. Jeremiah 13:11 cf. Micah 3:9).
See:
House of Israel
Terminology. When did this term apply ONLY to the Ten Tribes and When Not?
http://hebrewnations.com/articles/bible/hoi.html
Martin above quotes from both Hosea and Amos. The prophet Hosea is speaking of Ephraim i.e. the Ten Tribes whereas Amos may be referring to Judah as expalined below..
Hosea 9:17 is referring to Ephraim and the Ten Tribes. It says that Ephraim shall be "nodadim" which means not so much wandering but rather moving around from time to time.
Hosea 9:
17 My God will cast them away,
Because they did not obey Him; And they shall be wanderers among the nations.
WANDERERS: Hebrew "nodadim" meaning "moving from place to place".
Ephraim shall move from one nation to another until it finds its place. The Lost Tribes went to northern Assyria, to the Caucasus, Turkey, Persia, Russia, moved across Europe in several stages until reaching Britain, Holland, France, Scandinavia, Belgium, and Switzerland. They also moved through the Mediterranean lands including Italy Spain, Portugal, till reaching Irel;and, Britain, Western Europe, and Scandinavia. Details of some of these movements is to be found in our work "The Tribes".
Regarding the Prophecy in Amos:
According to our understanding Amos was referring to Judah in the verse under discussion:
Amos 9:
8 The eyes of the Lord God are upon the sinful kingdom [of Northern Israel i.e. the Ten Tribes],
and I will destroy it from the face of the earth
except that I will not utterly destroy the house of Jacob [i.e. Judah],
says the Lord.
9 For lo, I will command,
and shake the House of Israel [Judah] among all the nations
as one shakes with a sieve,
but no pebble shall fall to the ground.
The Northern Kingdom of the Ten Tribes was destroyed and disappeared. It never appeared again. When the Ten Tribes reappeared it was as elements in a confederation of other peoples or as virtual slaves under foreign taskmasters. Later they did become great nations in their own right BUT only after they had altogether lost consciousness of their former Israelite identity.
Elsewhere we understood this differently and explained House of Israel here to refer to the Ten Tribes. Both explanations are perhaps possible. The Ten Tribes were to be exiled, split into different sections, and to move from place to place until finally settling in western regions.
See:
#29. House of Jacob as Either the Ten Tribes or Judah?
http://hebrewnations.com/articles/bible/hoi.html#a29
Martin, above, said:
The Celts, Angles, Saxons and Danes have never been "wanderers among the nations" (the Gentile nations of the earth), nor have they been "sifted in a sieve among all nations" (that is, among all Gentile nations). Indeed, the Celts, Angles, Saxons and Danes have been peoples who have in the main steadfastly developed their national existences in their own territories (with stable and politically secure countries). They have even reached out to control other peoples of the world in a colonial and imperial manner.
BA Answers:
The Celts, Angles, Saxons and Danes and others were indeed "nodadim" in the Hebrew sense of the word. They even called themselves Hebrews which word in the Hebrew language ("Ibri", Ha-ivri, Hibri), even connotes wanderers.
See:
The Celts as Israelites
Ancient Peoples of the West Called Themselves Hebrews
http://hebrewnations.com/articles/biblical-proof/attributes/hebrewcelts.html
The prophecy concerning being "sifted in a sieve among all nations" (Amos 9:9) we understood as applicable to Judah.
It had been prophesied that the Ten Tribes would rule over other peoples and civilize them in "a colonial and imperial manner" as Martin testifies that they did.
[Genesis 27:29]
"LET PEOPLE SERVE THEE, AND NATIONS BOW DOWN TO THEE...
[Numbers 24:8]
"GOD BROUGHT HIM FORTH OUT OF EGYPT; HE HATH AS IT WERE THE STRENGTH OF A UNICORN: HE SHALL EAT UP THE NATIONS HIS ENEMIES, AND SHALL BREAK THEIR BONES, AND PIERCE THEM THROUGH WITH HIS ARROWS".
[Micah 5:8-9]
"AND THE REMNANT OF JACOB SHALL BE AMONG THE GENTILES IN THE MIDST OF MANY PEOPLE AS A LION AMONG THE BEASTS OF THE FOREST, AS A YOUNG LION AMONG THE FLOCKS OF SHEEP: WHO, IF HE GO THROUGH, BOTH TREADETH DOWN, AND TEARETH IN PIECES, AND NONE CAN DELIVE.
THINE HAND SHALL BE LIFTED UP UPON THINE ADVERSARIES, AND ALL THINE ENEMIES SHALL BE CUT OFF".
[Jeremiah 51:20]
"THOU ART MY BATTLE AXE AND WEAPONS OF WAR: FOR WITH THEE WILL I BREAK IN PIECES THE NATIONS, AND WITH THEE WILL I DESTROY KINGDOMS;"
See:
Biblical Proofs. Attributes
Rule Over Other Peoples
http://www.britam.org/Proof/Joseph/joRule.html
Dominant World Power
http://www.britam.org/Proof/Joseph/joDominant.html
Military Prowess
http://www.britam.org/Proof/Joseph/joMilitary.html
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