Is Sweden the Tribe of Gad or the Tribe of Asher? Steven Phillips versus Yair Davidiy
Continued from Davidiy/Phillips. Swedish Tribes?
From Steve Phillips,
First of all, I would like to stress that both Gad and Asher settled in Sweden. This is not in dispute. The dispute we have is over whether the Svear people are descended from Ishvi son of Asher or Shuni son of Gad. It does not alter the fact that Sweden is an Israelite country. I would respectfully point out that, in making your claims, you are ignoring basic rules of philology and fundamentally 'cherry picking' the result that you want.
I shall keep my response as short as possible as I am still in full time employment and any research I do has to be done outside my normal working hours. The following information is therefore, by necessity, a condensed version of the facts to keep my report as brief as possible. Fuller details of the Celtic and Germanic migrations will be presented in my paper The Forgotten Tribe of Naphtali & the Phoenicians.
Your whole argument hangs on the reading of Suiones as Shuni, but you ignore the fact that -ones as a suffix is a common occurrence:
The Celtic tribe of Eburones, for example, were named after Heber. Whether this was Heber son of Asher or some other Heber is difficult to say, though it should be noted that the flag of Tongern, where the Eburones settled, is half blue,the same blue as the flag of Sweden and of Waterford in Ireland - and half grey (of Gad?). You will probably argue that this flag only dates from 1990, and, of course, you would be right. I am finding that these tribes are subconsciously selecting their tribal colours. Take, for instance, the flag of Cornwall, which is black, this being the colour of the tribe of Joseph. Cornwall is so named after the Keraunes who settled there. (NB: Cornwall was called Cornubia by the Romans, this being the same name applied to the Cornaui (var. Cornavi) who settled in Scotland.) As you already know that the Hebrew letter ayyin can become a vowel, or a g or a k, I am sure that I do not need to point out that these Keraunes (var. Ceraunes) are descended from Keran son of Ephraim who gave rise to the family of Kerani. It was from Cornwall that tin was exported via the Isle of Wight to Gaul (France) and to Corunna in Spain and from there to various parts of the world. Note that Corunna is a variant spelling of Keraune.
For some reason or other, the tribes who settled in Scotland did not use flags, and it is only in the last century that the counties of Caithness and Sutherland, where Ptolemy informs us that a breakaway faction of the Ceraunes settled, decided to have their own flags. Guess what colour they chose. (Caithness: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flag_of_Caithness. Sutherland: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flag_of_Sutherland.)
These Ceraunes arrived in Britain via Ireland where they were known as Corrunigh (pronounced Coruni). There was a mass exodus of people from Ireland to Britain sometime towards the end of the first century CE and the beginning of the second. It was from this time forward that Ireland was being ruled from Britain, which explains why Ptolemy, and the works of Pseudo-Aristotle which also belongs to this late period, are the first to refer to Ireland as being under the jurisdiction of Britain. The Domnians, who were ruled over by the tribes of Ethan and Darda, sons of Judah, settled in Devon and Cornwall, and were responsible for establishing the city of Tamar on the River Tamar, naming the city after our Jewish matriarch. The Domnians bestowed their name on the county of Devon, the name Domnian being pronounced Dovnian. (The River Devon in Scotland was likewise named after the Domnians who settled there.) It is no coincidence that the flag of Devon is emerald green, the same as the flag of Leinster. As I have said to you before, and I shall say it again, the emerald was Judah's stone on the choshen hamishpat.
"Judah's stone was the green emerald, that has the power of making its owner victorious in battle, a fitting stone for this tribe from which springs the Jewish dynasty of kings, that routed its enemies. The color green alludes to the shame that turned Judah's countenance green when he publicly confessed his crime with Tamar."
This oral tradition is powerful evidence that Judah's stone is green. Or do you not believe in oral traditions?
By contrast, Levi's stone was a bareket whose root word barak means a lightning bolt. This explains the comment in the Jewish Encyclopedia that Levi's stone is "a flashing, brilliant stone" referring not to the properties of the stone itself but rather to what it represents. If you look at a lightning bolt (https://photos.com/featured/lightning-bolt-striking-lyle-leduc.html?product=art-print) you will see that the dominant colours are light [chalcedony] blue, this being the colour on the Israeli flag. Israel is actually flying LEVI's flag! It is no coincidence that the New Testament book of Revelation, which was written more than a century before work was started on the Midrash, gives Levi's stone as chalcedony.
In the Torah, we are commanded to make fringes on the corners of our clothing. This is to remind us to keep the law. We are also commanded to weave in a p'til of blue. What do you think that thread of blue is for Yair? Notice also that the robe of the ephod is also to be blue. (Exod. 28:31 and 39:22.) All of the instruments of ministry were also to be covered with a cloth of blue. This is Levi's colour! The blue thread which we are commanded to include in the fringes is to remind us that HaShem has chosen Levi to be his ministers and that this is an EVERLASTING covenant! So what is it that you do not understand Yair?
Nevertheless, returning to the subject in hand, we again have Ebur-ones. The -ones is a suffix which is commonly found in ancient names.
The Celtic tribe of Ambrones were a breakaway faction of the Umbrians who settled in northern Italy and in Epirus in northern Greece. These Umbrians were variously called Umbri, Umbrici, Ombricun and Ombrices. Those in northern Greece were similarly known as Ambracians, this being a phonetic variant of Ombrici. They were Ephraimites who named themselves after Omri, the king of Israel who is called Ambri in the Septuagint. For Ambrones read Umbri-ones. These Ephraimites are the people who built the city of Corinth in Greece. If you can recall, I pointed out that Josephus records that Solomon's palace was of Corinthian design. Corinth was originally called Ephyra, which is a variant spelling of the name Ephraim. The city was built by someone called Sisyphus. If this name had been written Josephus, no one would have had any problem connecting the name Ephyra with Ephraim. In fact, Epirus is closer to the Hebrew word P-R-I, meaning 'fruit'. Ephyra is called 'daughter of Okeanus', with Hesiod informing us that the River Okeanus had around 3,000 'daughters' and an innumerable number of 'sons'. (Theogony 360-370.) This is an allegorical statement. The River Okeanus is better known to us as the River Euphrates. I surmise that it was known as Okeanus after the Bit-Iakin (House of Iakin) who dwelt on its banks in southern Babylonia. As for the dropping of the final letter mem, consider King Rehoboam's son who is called Abijam in the first book of Kings (14:31 and 15:1-8) and Abijah in the second book of Chronicles (12:16 and 13:1-22). Two further examples of this dropping of the final mem will be quoted in a moment.
The Picts who settled in the land we nowadays know as Scotland were called Verturiones by Ammianus (Rerum Gestarum 27.8.5) a name which Francis G. Diack and Thomas F. O'Rahilly recognise as Fortrenn and identify as 'men of Turoni' (more correctly 'sons of Turones', the Celtic word 'for' or 'fir' being from the Celtic-Aramaic word 'bar'). The Turones who built the city of Tours in France were therefore a breakaway faction of Pictones (read Pict-ones) who dwelt on the coast to the west of the Turones. Ptolemy called these Turones Turogeias (2.8.14), a name which means 'nation [geias] of Turo' where Turo is a phonetic variation on the name Yetser, this being the name of the thirdborn son of Naphtali (AV Jezer).
Another faction of Turoni are recorded by Ptolemy (2.11.22) as being in north Germany in his day. These are clearly the people called Istiaeones (i.e. Istiae-ones) by Pliny (iv.14 (100)) and Istvaeones (i.e. Istvae-ones) by Tacitus (Germania 2).
The Hebrew letter tsadi, when transliterated into another language can become a t as in Tyre, an s as in Sidon, a z as in Zidon (both Sidon and Zidon being used interchangeably in the King James translation), or it can be a psi as in Psontom-phanech, the transliteration as it appears in both Josephus and the Septuagint of Zaphnath-paaneah, the name given to the patriarch Joseph by Pharaoh. Consequently, Poseidon, the 'god of the seas', is another variant spelling of the name Sidon/Zidon. This same letter tsadi can also be transliterated as st, as evidenced by the fact that Josephus called Mitzraim (the Biblical name for Egypt) Mestre. (Note again the dropping of the final mem). In the above examples, the names Turo, Istia and Istvae are phonetic variants which are cognate with the Hebrew name Yetser.
The Daukiones (i.e. Dauki-ones) who are recorded by Ptolemy as dwelling in Denmark were Shuhamites, descended from Shuham son of Dan. Just to run through the phonetic changes involved: The Hebrew letter shin can become a t or a d in transliteration. Josephus, for example, called Bashan in northern Israel both Batanaian and Batanidi. Ptolemy likewise used Batanaian. You likewise have noticed that the Attacorae who settled in Finland were Issacarites, so you should be perfectly comfortable with this explanation. The letters t and d in ancient languages were also commonplace, as you yourself have noticed. In the El Amarna letters, for example, the king of Mitanni was called both Tushratta and Dushratta. One of the generals was variously known as Aitugama, Etakama, Atakkama, Edagama etc. You already known that the Jutes were called Euodioses by Ptolemy. Again, note the dropping of the final mem so that Shuham becomes Tuchae or Duchae. These are the people who were known to the Greek writers as Dacians (NB: this name in Greek is written Daki).
Having amply demonstrated that the -ones suffix was commonplace, this alone destroys your argument for identifying the Sui-ones as descendants of Shuni son of Gad. You are left with Sui, pronounced Swee or Svee with their country being Svee-den, meaning 'land of [the] Svea people'. Bear in mind that both Suiones and Sweden are the names given to these people by other nations. The Swedes themselves refer to their country as Sverige, a name which is pronounced Sveriah. I have provided evidence for the dropping of the initial syllable in my previous email, so I don't think that this needs to be explained again. The Swedish flag is to this day flying Ashur's colours.
Turning now to your so-called 'archaeological evidence', you clearly have not read what you have written. Let me refresh your memory:
"A separate study of 271 glass beads found in Danish Bronze Age graves found they dated to around 1400 BCE and that 23 of them originated in Egypt and Syria."
First of all, how do artefacts discovered in DANISH graves prove any connection between Sweden and Syria? Secondly, do I need to point out that Gad's allocated territory was to the east of the River Jordan, NOT in Syria. By Syria, archaeologists mean the land which we today know as Syria and which encompasses land which previously belonged to the northern Ten Tribes, most notably including the land of Asher. If you are using this as evidence for the Swedes having come from Israel, then this would actually support my interpretation not yours. The article in question actually talks about connections between Sweden and Sardinia, mainland Greece and Crete. Do you have any supporting evidence to confirm that either Gad or Asher have any connection with these places? It is no good just sticking a pin in a page of a book and making claims which you cannot substantiate.
The Daukiones may have a name that is a transmutation of Shuham (son fo Dan) but ut is more likely to be a form of Daci. People from Dacia (southeast Europe) migrated to Denmark and the Danish are often referred to as Dacians in Medieval writings.
Anyhow, I leave you to mull over what I have said. Whether you believe me or not is your prerogative, but I think that your whole argument hinges on one very flimsy and dubious reading of Suiones as Shuni.
I hope that this information helps.
If you have read our book The Tribes and also our articles you will have noticed that we often finds Israelite Tribes intermixed with each other. Usually one group is clearly dominant and that is what we concentrate upon.
We identify Sweden with Gad. Gad gave his name to the Goths (also known as God or Gad), and the sons of Gad are those of elements important in Scandinavian History especially that of Sweden.
The Svea were as important in Sweden as the Goths, possibly more so. We identified them with Shuni son of Gad. The Svea were also known as Suiones which in Northern Hebrew would have been how Shuni was pronounced.
You objected to this quite strongly.
# Suiones as Shuni, but you ignore the fact that -ones as a suffix is a common occurrence. #
Linguistics is an interesting and useful science but it does not always reflect linguistic reality.
Svea could just as easily be derived from Suione using the same principle you alluded to.
Not only that but when people transfer a foreign word into their language they apply to it their own linguistic features.
Suione could come from Shuni with the end part [-uni] being given the characteristic of a suffix due to the similarity of its appearance.
Once again we could argue the point back and forth. That would require focusing only on the one point detaching it from the general context of its appearance which is just as important as the individual word itself.
There are at least 20 different identifications of the precious stones coloring with that of the Tribes.
We use that of Midrash Rabah.
Which one are you using? Why do you not name it?
We believe in Oral Traditions when they correspond with other information.
In Judaism acceptance of Oral Traditions is only obligatory as far as legal decisions are concerned.
Apart from that, there are no Jewish Oral Traditions that contradict us.
Christian sources may, or may not, have something to teach us but they may confuse the issue so our policy is to avoid them.
Your point about the Verturiones (who settled in Scotland and possibly Ireland) being related to the Pictones of France is interesting.
Not all of your points however where we able to see the point of!
The territory of Gad was to the east of the Jordan River and along with that of Reuben stretched to the Euphratres River. See "The Tribes" and our notes on the Maps of Ptolemy.
Your remark "Attacorae who settled in Finland were Issacarites" may be of value.
We look, as much as possible, for solutions that fit ALL the available facts, and that dove-tail with each other.
Modern Linguistic speculation is not sufficient in itself especially when it disrupts patterns derived from other, equally acceptable or more acceptable, sources.