Brit-Am Now no. 2073

Ten Tribes Studies. (28 May, 2013, Sivan 19, 5773)

Contents:
1. Andrew Hoy: The USA and Israel Mutuality
2. Interesting Source (Talmud Yerushalmi). Non-Israelite Foreigners who become Jewish Converts or Israelites.
3. Query on the Cimmerians, Scythians and Guti (Goths) and the Exiled Israelites.
4. Response of Jews to News of Hebrew Nations Findings.
5. Christians were the Ones who Spread Knowledge of the Bible
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1. Andrew Hoy: The USA and Israel Mutuality
Re YouTube Clip: The USA Fulfills the Role of Joseph
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6fvtpB9-OAo

Yair,

After watching your USA/Joseph video, it made me remember a book that I read about the US/Israel relationships and how it seems that the US receives storms measure for measure with bad US to Israel foreign policy. If you don't read the book, make a point to read the reviews. It is remarkable research.
See:
As America Has Done To Israel by John McTernan
http://www.amazon.com/As-America-Has-Done-Israel/dp/1603740384
Book Description
Publication Date: March 4, 2008
Is America on a collision course with God?
There is a direct correlation between the alarming number of massive disasters striking America and her leaders pressuring Israel to surrender her land for "peace."
Costing hundreds of lives and causing hundreds of billions of dollars' damage, dozens of disasters including devastating earthquakes, raging fires, hurricanes, floods, tsunamis, and violent tornadoes have hit America, and always within twenty-four hours of putting pressure on Israel.
====
====
2. Interesting Source (Talmud Yerushalmi). Non-Israelite Foreigners who become Jewish Converts or Israelites.
Talmud Yerushalmi, Beracoth ch.2 halacha 8 (29b):
# When Israel does the will of the Almighty, God searches through the whole world to find a righteous person amongst the Nations of the Earth. He then brings the person and attaches them to Israel. Such was the case with Yitro [Jethro] and Rahab. On the other hand, when they make HIM angry HE takes the righteous away from them. #
====
====
3. Query on the Cimmerians, Scythians and Guti (Goths) and the Exiled Israelites.
Jamie wrote:

Hi Yair,

I needed some clarity on the relation of Cimmerians, Scythians and Guti (Goths). Were each of these groups 3 different distinct groups of the Northern Kingdom, with three different paths in history, or are they all synonymous? (ie: the same group with different names)

I'm trying to reconcile the relationship of each group, and the historical timeline each one follows? Ch.1 of the The Tribes expounds on details of the Cimmerian historical record fairly clear, its the other two groups that are still a bit unclear to me? Where can I find their historical path and/or how they relate to the Cimmerians?

Best regards,

Jamie

====
Brit-Am Reply:
In our work "Hebrew Ancestry" we make this issue a little clearer.
http://www.britam.org/ancestry.html

We hope shortly to put out a few more articles on the subject.

First of all let us answer your question and then give a little explanation.
Our view is that,
The Cimmerians are to be identified with both Gomer son of Japhet and with Israelites from the Ten Tribes. They were a group of non-Israelites with whom Israelites confederated and are sometimes confused with. In some cases peoples referred to as Cimmerians are Israelites and in other cases not. The term Cimmerian could be applied to a people known as Cimmerian (Gomri) or to a federation of Cimmerians, Scythians, and Goths.

(1) The Cimmerians per se were the first to leave the Middle East in ca. 670s BCE. They moved at once to Europe. The Cimmerians and some of the Scythians settled in Europe amongst peoples of Celtic Culture. The Israelite elements amongst them moved to the British Isles and other areas of Western Europe. There were also Israelites before them who had been taken overseas (from ca. 720 BCE) to the west by Phoenicians and Philistines acting on behalf of the Assyrians. These too were influenced by Celtic Culture.

(2) The Scythians and Goths had once been part of the Cimmerians but separated and fought against them. They were defeated by the Medes in ca. 614 BCE and in the following century began moving to the north. From the north they eventually continued westward. Most of the Scythians and the Goths became the Germanic speaking peoples including those of Scandinavia. Here too, the Israelites amongst them separated out from the rest and settled in the West and North.

(3) A few groups of Israelites who had been associated with Scythians and Goths became separated from the rest but reappeared as the Finns and Khazars.

This is not a complete answer but it should give you an idea in the meantime.

In some British Israel writings and also in some of our own writings the impression may be received that all the Cimmerians were Israelites. This was in fact only the case regarding specific sections of them.

What we know about the Cimmerians is derived from different sources that point in the same direction but do not exactly agree with each other.
The sources include Biblical and Rabbinical statements; Assyrian inscriptions; Greek and other historical accounts; Archaeological Findings as conventionally understood.
The Biblical and Rabbinical statements agree with Assyrian inscriptions. The other sources both strengthen and modify these findings.

First of all the nomenclature:
The name Cimmerians may refer to a particular people of that name or it may refer to the Cimmerians, Scythians, and Goths together.
By analogy, we may compare the name Canaanite. We find the name Canaanite applied in a generic sense to all 12 Tribes of Canaan AS WELL AS one particular Tribe amongst the 12 Tribes of Canaan, i.e. there was a people known as Canaan or Canaanites who with eleven other peoples were part of a group also known altogether as Canaanites. In addition amongst the 12 tribes of Canaan were the Amorites. Sometimes the whole 12 tribes of Canaan (or several of them, or even one or other amongst them) are called Amorites instead of being referred to as Canaanites. This is worth keeping in mind since the same phenomenon is repeated elsewhere in the Bible.
Gomer is identified with the Cimmerians.
Gomer in the Bible was father of Ashkenaz, Togarmah, and Riphah. Gomer could also be the name of an independent entity in its own right or of some combination of the sons of Gomer. Descendants of Gomer to day seem to be found amongst the Germanic, Celtic, and Slavic linguistic groups.
Similarly,
The Assyrians referred to a people as Gimerru or Gamera, etc. This name(s) in Akkadian could mean "The Tribes". These were the Cimmerians. They first appear in Assyrian records either shortly after or shortly before (the date is not certain) the Israelites were exiled. They appear in the areas Israelites were exiled to. At first they were subjects or paid confederates and/or settlers of the Assyrians. Then some of them rebelled while others continued to serve as auxiliary mercenaries. [To understand what was happening in the Assyrian Empire at that times it is helpful to compare the situation and Assyrian attitudes with the Roman Empire in its later stages.] Later another group known as Ishkuza emerged from amongst the Cimmerians and broke away from them. These are identified with the Scythians. The Scythians were also known as Saka. Other inscriptions mention the Umman Manda who comprised the Gimiri (Cimmerians), Sakae (Scythians), and Guti (Goths). The term Umman Manda may have originally meant People of Manasseh. Later the Babylonians applied the term to the Medes.
If all this sounds complicated and confusing it gets even more so as more information becomes available.
Nevertheless as we have presented it in our work it becomes reasonably clear. We are endeavoring to make it even clearer.
The evidence shows that, at the least, Israelites were an important element amongst these peoples and they did move to the west.
HaShem be with you,
Yair

Brit-Am Now no. 2073: Ten Tribes Studies

Hebrew Ancestry. Make a Pre-Publication Order Now! Only $30
http://www.britam.org/ancestry.html

Please Make an Offering to Brit-Am:
http://hebrewnations.com/contributions/offerings.html
http://www.britam.org/contribute-Brit-Am.html

* * * *
====
====
* * * *
Brit-Am Now no. 2073. Ten Tribes Studies.
http://hebrewnations.com/features/now3/2072.html
(27 May, 2013, Sivan 18, 5773)
Contents:
1. Andrew Hoy: The USA and Israel Mutuality
2. Interesting Source (Talmud Yerushalmi). Non-Israelite Foreigners who become Jewish Converts or Israelites.
3. Query on the Cimmerians, Scythians and Guti (Goths) and the Exiled Israelites.
====
====
1. Andrew Hoy: The USA and Israel Mutuality
Re YouTube Clip: The USA Fulfills the Role of Joseph
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6fvtpB9-OAo

Yair,

After watching your USA/Joseph video, it made me remember a book that I read about the US/Israel relationships and how it seems that the US receives storms measure for measure with bad US to Israel foreign policy. If you don't read the book, make a point to read the reviews. It is remarkable research.
See:
As America Has Done To Israel by John McTernan
http://www.amazon.com/As-America-Has-Done-Israel/dp/1603740384
Book Description
Publication Date: March 4, 2008
Is America on a collision course with God?
There is a direct correlation between the alarming number of massive disasters striking America and her leaders pressuring Israel to surrender her land for "peace."
Costing hundreds of lives and causing hundreds of billions of dollars' damage, dozens of disasters including devastating earthquakes, raging fires, hurricanes, floods, tsunamis, and violent tornadoes have hit Americaï¿½and always within twentyï¿½four hours of putting pressure on Israel.
====
====
2. Interesting Source (Talmud Yerushalmi). Non-Israelite Foreigners who become Jewish Converts or Israelites.
Talmud Yerushalmi, Beracoth ch.2 halacha 8 (29b):
# When Israel does the will of the Almighty, God searches through the whole world to find a righteous person amongst the Nations of the Earth. He then brings the person and attaches them to Israel. Such was the case with Yitro [Jethro] and Rahab. On the other hand, when they make HIM angry HE takes the righteous away from them. #
====
====
3. Query on the Cimmerians, Scythians and Guti (Goths) and the Exiled Israelites.
Jamie wrote:

Hi Yair,

I needed some clarity on the relation of Cimmerians, Scythians and Guti (Goths). Were each of these groups 3 different distinct groups of the Northern Kingdom, with three different paths in history, or are they all synonymous? (ie: the same group with different names)

I'm trying to reconcile the relationship of each group, and the historical timeline each one follows? Ch.1 of the The Tribes expounds on details of the Cimmerian historical record fairly clear, its the other two groups that are still a bit unclear to me? Where can I find their historical path and/or how they relate to the Cimmerians?

Best regards,

Jamie

====
Brit-Am Reply:
In our work "Hebrew Ancestry" we make this issue a little clearer.
http://www.britam.org/ancestry.html

We hope shortly to put out a few more articles on the subject.

First of all let us answer your question and then give a little explanation.
Our view is that,
The Cimmerians are to be identified with both Gomer son of Japhet and with Israelites from the Ten Tribes. They were a group of non-Israelites with whom Israelites confederated and are sometimes confused with. In some cases peoples referred to as Cimmerians are Israelites and in other cases not. The term Cimmerian could be applied to a people known as Cimmerian (Gomri) or to a federation of Cimmerians, Scythians, and Goths.

(1) The Cimmerians per se were the first to leave the Middle East in ca. 670s BCE. They moved at once to Europe. The Cimmerians and some of the Scythians settled in Europe amongst peoples of Celtic Culture. The Israelite elements amongst them moved to the British Isles and other areas of Western Europe. There were also Israelites before them who had been taken overseas (from ca. 720 BCE) to the west by Phoenicians and Philistines acting on behalf of the Assyrians. These too were influenced by Celtic Culture.

(2) The Scythians and Goths had once been part of the Cimmerians but separated and fought against them. They were defeated by the Medes in ca. 614 BCE and in the following century began moving to the north. From the north they eventually continued westward. Most of the Scythians and the Goths became the Germanic speaking peoples including those of Scandinavia. Here too, the Israelites amongst them separated out from the rest and settled in the West and North.

(3) A few groups of Israelites who had been associated with Scythians and Goths became separated from the rest but reappeared as the Finns and Khazars.

This is not a complete answer but it should give you an idea in the meantime.

In some British Israel writings and also in some of our own writings the impression may be received that all the Cimmerians were Israelites. This was in fact only the case regarding specific sections of them.

What we know about the Cimmerians is derived from different sources that point in the same direction but do not exactly agree with each other.
The sources include Biblical and Rabbinical statements; Assyrian inscriptions; Greek and other historical accounts; Archaeological Findings as conventionally understood.
The Biblical and Rabbinical statements agree with Assyrian inscriptions. The other sources both strengthen and modify these findings.

First of all the nomenclature:
The name Cimmerians may refer to a particular people of that name or it may refer to the Cimmerians, Scythians, and Goths together.
By analogy, we may compare the name Canaanite. We find the name Canaanite applied in a generic sense to all 12 Tribes of Canaan AS WELL AS one particular Tribe amongst the 12 Tribes of Canaan, i.e. there was a people known as Canaan or Canaanites who with eleven other peoples were part of a group also known altogether as Canaanites. In addition amongst the 12 tribes of Canaan were the Amorites. Sometimes the whole 12 tribes of Canaan (or several of them, or even one or other amongst them) are called Amorites instead of being referred to as Canaanites. This is worth keeping in mind since the same phenomenon is repeated elsewhere in the Bible.
Gomer is identified with the Cimmerians.
Gomer in the Bible was father of Ashkenaz, Togarmah, and Riphah. Gomer could also be the name of an independent entity in its own right or of some combination of the sons of Gomer. Descendants of Gomer to day seem to be found amongst the Germanic, Celtic, and Slavic linguistic groups.
Similarly,
The Assyrians referred to a people as Gimerru or Gamera, etc. This name(s) in Akkadian could mean "The Tribes". These were the Cimmerians. They first appear in Assyrian records either shortly after or shortly before (the date is not certain) the Israelites were exiled. They appear in the areas Israelites were exiled to. At first they were subjects or paid confederates and/or settlers of the Assyrians. Then some of them rebelled while others continued to serve as auxiliary mercenaries. [To understand what was happening in the Assyrian Empire at that times it is helpful to compare the situation and Assyrian attitudes with the Roman Empire in its later stages.] Later another group known as Ishkuza emerged from amongst the Cimmerians and broke away from them. These are identified with the Scythians. The Scythians were also known as Saka. Other inscriptions mention the Umman Manda who comprised the Gimiri (Cimmerians), Sakae (Scythians), and Guti (Goths). The term Umman Manda may have originally meant People of Manasseh. Later the Babylonians applied the term to the Medes.
If all this sounds complicated and confusing it gets even more so as more information becomes available.
Nevertheless as we have presented it in our work it becomes reasonably clear. We are endeavoring to make it even clearer.
The evidence shows that, at the least, Israelites were an important element amongst these peoples and they did move to the west.
HaShem be with you,
Yair

Brit-Am Now no. 2073: Ten Tribes Studies

Hebrew Ancestry. Make a Pre-Publication Order Now! Only $30
http://www.britam.org/ancestry.html

Please Make an Offering to Brit-Am:
http://hebrewnations.com/contributions/offerings.html
http://www.britam.org/contribute-Brit-Am.html

* * * *
====
====
* * * *
Brit-Am Now no. 2073. Ten Tribes Studies.
http://hebrewnations.com/features/now3/2072.html
(27 May, 2013, Sivan 18, 5773)
Contents:
1. Andrew Hoy: The USA and Israel Mutuality
2. Interesting Source (Talmud Yerushalmi). Non-Israelite Foreigners who become Jewish Converts or Israelites.
3. Query on the Cimmerians, Scythians and Guti (Goths) and the Exiled Israelites.
====
====
1. Andrew Hoy: The USA and Israel Mutuality
Re YouTube Clip: The USA Fulfills the Role of Joseph
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6fvtpB9-OAo

Yair,

After watching your USA/Joseph video, it made me remember a book that I read about the US/Israel relationships and how it seems that the US receives storms measure for measure with bad US to Israel foreign policy. If you don't read the book, make a point to read the reviews. It is remarkable research.
See:
As America Has Done To Israel by John McTernan
http://www.amazon.com/As-America-Has-Done-Israel/dp/1603740384
Book Description
Publication Date: March 4, 2008
Is America on a collision course with God?
There is a direct correlation between the alarming number of massive disasters striking America and her leaders pressuring Israel to surrender her land for "peace."
Costing hundreds of lives and causing hundreds of billions of dollars' damage, dozens of disasters including devastating earthquakes, raging fires, hurricanes, floods, tsunamis, and violent tornadoes have hit America, and always within twenty-four hours of putting pressure on Israel.
====
====
2. Interesting Source (Talmud Yerushalmi). Non-Israelite Foreigners who become Jewish Converts or Israelites.
Talmud Yerushalmi, Beracoth ch.2 halacha 8 (29b):
# When Israel does the will of the Almighty, God searches through the whole world to find a righteous person amongst the Nations of the Earth. He then brings the person and attaches them to Israel. Such was the case with Yitro [Jethro] and Rahab. On the other hand, when they make HIM angry HE takes the righteous away from them. #
====
====
3. Query on the Cimmerians, Scythians and Guti (Goths) and the Exiled Israelites.
Jamie wrote:

Hi Yair,

I needed some clarity on the relation of Cimmerians, Scythians and Guti (Goths). Were each of these groups 3 different distinct groups of the Northern Kingdom, with three different paths in history, or are they all synonymous? (ie: the same group with different names)

I'm trying to reconcile the relationship of each group, and the historical timeline each one follows? Ch.1 of the The Tribes expounds on details of the Cimmerian historical record fairly clear, its the other two groups that are still a bit unclear to me? Where can I find their historical path and/or how they relate to the Cimmerians?

Best regards,

Jamie

====
====
4. Response of Jews to News of Hebrew Nations Findings.
Usually the response of Jews is that of mild interest. Sometimes there is enthusiasm and on occasion a feeling of barely suppressed antagonism. Overall the reactions from Jews are more positive than those from Lost Israelite non-Jews. On the other hand practical support is usually less though there are exceptions. Those few Jews who do give usually do so with great generosity. Like most others however they eventually either find either causes to give to or drop out of sight.
Paradoxically quite a few of those who give testify to having been blessed in the period they did so.
Anyway I recall two incidents of Jewish Reactions to the NEWS that may be of interest.

(1) A. was a middle-aged Jewish businessman who had lived much of his life in Glasgow, Scotland. He had since moved to Israel. He did not think the Scottish could be from the Ten Tribes since from his experience they were "too wild".

(2) B. was a retired lawyer once active in US politics. In WW2 he had been a soldier in the US army and had participated in hand to hand warfare against the Japanese. He was highly cultured and well read in Jewish and general history.
His reaction to the "News" was along the following lines:

" Very nice but do they know it? If it is true, let us see them [i.e. the Lost Israelites] display a little more pro-Israeli and less anti-Jewish sentiments."
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5. Christians were the Ones who Spread Knowledge of the Bible
7Barukh
Comment on your video: The USA Fulfills the Role of Joseph
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6fvtpB9-OAo
Nice short snapshot Yair, todah. As an addendum to your comment about the Jewish people spreading the Bible to the world.... it must be noted that "Christianity" on the whole are the ones who have spread the Bible to the nations, not the Jewish people. Shalom.